Graduate degrees as entry-level for other healthcare professions

Nurses General Nursing

Published

You all are probably aware that PT requires (or will soon require, can't recall) the masters degree for entry into practice. Pharmacists need the PharmD. Etc., etc. Did any of these other non-nursing professions have a lot of controversy over adopting these standards? Or any standards, for that matter. Nursing doesn't agree on what the standards should be, unless you consider the multiple points of entry a "standard".

The debates in nursing over proper entry-level have been going on and on for years. North Dakota (and Canada, yes?) has adopted the BSN as the entry-level. How did this come about? What did it take for the legislators to sit down and say, "this is how it's going to be, no ifs ands or buts"? How is nursing affected in these areas due to the BSN being required?

Specializes in LDRP; Education.
Originally posted by globalRN

Standardizing our education at a university level will be a big step forward.

As to NCLEX: this is an entry exam, not an expert exam.

I thought there were studies looking at the quality of care provided by degree nurses versus non-degree holders at 1 year postgraduation, and the degree nurses were found to provide more holistic, individualized care. SuzyK??

Very good points above.

As far as your reference to those studies, I believe I've heard results to that effect, but I can do a lit search and see what I come up with. I'd be curious to read the actual literature.

SmilinBluEyes, was it you? I think rhetorically asked (paraphrasing here) "so, would you rather not have me, a very good nurse, NOT be one because I can't access the BSN programs?" In answer to your question..NO. But I highly doubt you became a nurse simply because it was the closest and most convenient schooling around you. If you really wanted to be a physician, you would have. If you really wanted to be a pianist and attend Juliard, you would have. At least that's what I believe.

Specializes in Specializes in L/D, newborn, GYN, LTC, Dialysis.

yes it was me. And yes, I became a nurse out of a strong desire to do so. I would have much preferred to pursue a BSN but like I said ad nauseum, it was NOT feasible for my situation. And I am not alone in being a working mom who goes to school. Was it MY fault a program was 100 miles away? NO, being military, I did not have the luxury of moving closer to it w/o creating serious issues for my family.

I still say, What is proposed here is not reasonable and til a do-able plan is made, I doubt it will happen w/o making the critical shortage of qualified RN's much worse.

Originally posted by deespoohbear

I also feel that if you are a nursing manager over a certain department, your skills better be up to date with whatever area you manage. The staff you are managing will have more respect for you if you able to work along side of them, not just stand their and bark orders. It is hard to know what us people at the bottom of the rungs of the ladder are experiencing at the bedside if you aren't there once in awhile. :rolleyes:

Yep, I work the floor every day just like everybody else around here. Am on 24/7 call for ER and NICU , also.I dropped out of the MSN program before I finished my thesis and have no plans to complete it - but I am grateful for the extra knowledge it gave me. I refused to have BSN put after RN on my name badge. I don't think it's all that special. What's the difference between a profession and a job? How many other professions have less than a 4 year entry level (BS,BA whatever)?

I work in rural OK. If we didn't have LPN's,ADN's, PCT's we wouldn't have staffing in hospitals or clinics. Change has to start somewhere- if there is to be change- I've heard the same old, whinny story since 1975. Why aren't we taken seriously as a profession- well we've all answered that.:o

Specializes in LDRP; Education.

SmilingBluEyes,

I also believe that if we mandate a BS into professional practice, we WILL suffer a shortage or backlash. But I also think, just like anything else, it has to get worse before it gets better.

I for one would prefer to grandfather in all existing RNs and start with the BS requirement with all new nursing students and schools, anyway. To me, that simply just makes sense.

Specializes in Specializes in L/D, newborn, GYN, LTC, Dialysis.

I guess that is the next question we must all be willing to ask ourselves. How much worse are we willing to tolerate things being before improvements are made? Sadly, there just are not enough young people who are willing and with lots of time (and MONEY), to replace us and enter professional nursing. And yes, the grandfathering idea is a very good one. .....however I still say we need to make access more universal and more ADULT-learner FRIENDLY, if all-BS nursing will ever come to pass.

IOriginally posted by Susy K

I for one would prefer to grandfather in all existing RNs and start with the BS requirement with all new nursing students and schools, anyway. To me, that simply just makes sense.

i don't think that they could do it any other way. one of my clinical instructors was a np...i asked her about her schooling and she said that she was grandfathered in. nursing has done it before and just might have to do it again.

Grandfathering in has always been the path taken...noone is taking away anything from anyone who already is an RN or NP.

THAT is why I can't understand why it is such an issue still!!!

Originally posted by MICU RN

Susy K:

Love your post and agree with it 100%. Putting the profession first and not taking the debate so personal will be a key for positive change. And in regards to VSUMMER"S post it is obvious that the he/she is taking the issue personal, with comments like " it took me 2 years to just take the prereq.'s". Well it took me almost two years also. Why? Because I went to school part-time and worked full-time. The bottem line is how many credits did you need to graduate? Most AD programs require about 72, counting clinical hours. And it usaully takes someone who is a full-time student 1-2 semesters to complete the prereq's. and then go to school for 24 months. If anything, I regretted not going for my BSN initially because it only would have taken 3-4 more semesters and I would have it out the way. And the issue is not whether Ad nurses can do their jobs as well as BSN prepared nurses, we do it every day, it is about taking an important step towards becoming a more respected profession. That is one of the reasons I went back and enrolled in a RN/BSN program.

Maybe I did take it personally... but I am really PO'd right now. I just found this out yesterday: The ADN program plus ONE SEMESTER at UNLV and I could have my BSN!!! I am in a location that doesn't (didn't) offer a BSN.

They just started a satellite campus here, will be teaching BSN here next semester. I am LIVID to know that my ADN program has the EXACT SAME CLINICALS, IN THE SAME ROOM AT THE SAME TIME as the BSN's do. :( We were actually asked to conserve supplies since they have more students coming in next semester due to the BSN's coming in.

The difference? ONE semester of NON CORE classes. I am MAD to know that, and I feel insulted to the extreme to hear that I should have taken one extra semester for my BSN. BUT, you bet that after I finish I am putting in that 1 measly semester and getting my BSN. Now that it is available in our little neck of the woods..

SORRY, caught me at a really bad time on this one! How can they justify giving a BSN for one semester of non core classes when they are going to be training side by side in clinical with ADN's?! Turning this around, I should be happy that our program is so good I guess :chuckle

SmilingBluEyes- I'm sorry I upset you. This timeline/ADN/BSN thing has been a thorn to us since a have been a nurse. I started out as a BSN because the LPN school turned me down for having high scores. I was raising a child by myself and needed a salary that wasn't min. wage. There was a BSN program in town and ADN program was 40 miles away...so it was convient for me and I couldn't work FT, commute and go to school so I understand choices. I am not better than anybody.Believe me, I'm not and I know it.

The timeline has been discussed since I was in clinicals in 1981. Standardizing educational levels would bring it a long way but it's needs to be done without demoralizing anyone and not excluding nurses already in the profession with other levels.

Originally posted by TheLionessRN

I just want to say one thing about unions, even tho that part of the thread wasn't picked up on more.

Unions are not for Professionals. If we are going to be considered professionals, then we need to earn the respect of the medical community. Unions are for people who put cars together, for truckdrivers and painters. I am not putting these folks down, but these are not college educated positions, and if we join their ranks, then we are sending a loud message to the world that we are going to use thuggary instead of intelligence to get what we want. I don't think we want to be thought of as the Local Healthcare Union #109, or whatever, when a lot of us are very proud of our titles, which are professionally earned.

Very astute observation! Now that you mention it, I agree 100%

Specializes in Specializes in L/D, newborn, GYN, LTC, Dialysis.

Mattigan, apology gladly accepted and no hard feelings. *shakes your hand*

Oh and Val, my friend, just WAIT 'til you try a bridge program to the BSN. You think you are livid now???? Wait 'til they re-teach you all kinds of things and require you to shell out $1000s more you don't have to do this. Not to mention LOTS AND LOTS of time, doing clinical hours to satisfy their requirements, failing to recognize our experiences already. LIVID?

Yes, it is an outrage--- Just Another issue that stands in the way of many ADN-prepared nurses going back to school. See, folks for so many of us, it is not an issue of lack of ambition, but lack of desire, I guess-------Desire to spend time and money we don't have, let alone be treated like children, going back to school, just to get a BSN and earn exactly what we are now, doing exactly what we do now. And, I do take exception when one says "If you wanted it, you could have done it".....I wish it were so; I WANTED DESPERATELY to earn a BSN! However that said, That Many BSN's require NO MORE CLINICAL HOURS (really where I was, this was true) than what I did in my ADN training , and a few more expensive classes IS an outrage that needs to be addressed when considering going ALL BSN. Hey, the money I have to spend to go back and get a BSN, I would much rather spend on other classes, learning a lot more of what I value. Anyhow, You bring up valid points, Val.

This is truely an intersting thread. My personal journey in nursing and education has given me a different perspective than I had when I started in the profession some 20++ years ago. I was an LPN for 12 years, ADN for 10 more years, an aid for several years before that and am presently completing my BSN. While I had my ADN, I actually completed a dual masters degree in health services management and business. I already had a BA in management. I thought that a BSN program would be a waste of time because of my level of experience (this has actually proven to be accurate). I thought that a masters in health services would enable me to advance into positions of increasing responsibility. I was wrong. Nursing as profession looks closely at education level when determining who to advance. I agree that the entry level should be BSN. But I also strongly believe that this alone will not provide the professional respect we desire. The BSN program must be changed in order to serve the needs of modern day patients. I have learned absolutely nothing in my BSN program for numerous reasons. Some of it is the curriculum. Some of it is the instructors themselves. I work in an acute care hospital. CCU and Tele. are my areas of experience. We discharge patients quicker and sicker these days. Our education needs to take this into account. Who has time to care plan effectively and have a patient present long enought to see a problem through to completion? I've said enough for one post.

+ Add a Comment