Gets up on one knee

dadrn · Mar 17, 2003

Is there any specific incidents of gender bias that you could relate to us?

Mario, hang in there. to answer your question, many male nurses could probably give you several examples of incidents. We just can't let it stop us. Where I work we get students from one scholl that has split the group into males and females. We get the females on one day and the males on the next. Any staff nurse working both days could easily site examples that the students don't even notice. Is that what we can expect as the norm? No, Ive' only been doing this about six years and know this is not the norm. What can we do about it? It'll probably just keep changing until the profession won't be recognized by one gender base.

Have I experienced any discrimination based on gender since becoming a nurse? You bet, but I'm still here. But I don't need to go into that in this open mail.

Just hang tough. I knew that I woulld have a hard time in school so I took the option of LPN first. In our school, you had the choice of tow pathways, LPN (taking classes during normal school breaks) or RN (based on a regular school schedule). If you choose RN and failed a single subject, you were boarded out, regardless of gender. To get back in, You went back on a waiting list, that contined over 900 names. If you took the LPN route and passed, you could test and get licensed. But if you failed, you were only boarded out of LPN and not RN. I used that track to lwarn enough about pediatrics, mother-baby, etc. to finish the RN track. By the way, I passed and did get my license because I felt a little insecure. But I did learn enough to get through RN.

It will be worth it. Hang in there but start looking for another approach. Maybe you could become and EMT, Surg Tech, phlebotomist (I'm not a great speller), etc. Just don't stop. And Thanks for all the other nurses givig himthe encouragement. That helps all of us greatly.

dadrn · Mar 17, 2003

Added postscript.

Having never been in a hospital or even willing to visit people in a hospital before a family emergency required it, I figured I'd start first with seeing if I could handle the environment before committing to 3 or 4 years of school. I got CNA through the red cross and got a job on a surgical ward in an acute care hospital, then I volunteered to do unit clerk work. I enjoyed it so I made my decision.

This might help to learn the charts, red the handwritting, become familiar with the lingo, etc.

By the say, sorry about all the misspelling and poor typing.

Dr. Kate, BSN, RN · Mar 17, 2003

You know, Mario, what you interpreted as not wanting to work with a male nurse might well have been not wanting to work with a student. Students have no idea how much work they create for the nurse they're working with. Some days you're just not up to it. Some days you have a choice, others you don't and you take the student in spite of how you feel. I don't know what happened to you.

You also may be right. One of our hospitals tends to be very male unfriendly (actually they're pretty much anybody new unfriendly but that's another problem.) They're pretty good here with male students because they move on. The other hospital is more male neutral but tends toward the male unfriendly side of things.

It takes a strong ego to work in a male unfriendly environment. It takes a stronger one to work in a new person unfriendly environment.

I wish nursing in general, and my facility in particular, was more welcoming and accommodating of newcomers. But we aren't. And as much as I hate to say it, if you aren't prepared to deal with it, maybe nursing isn't for you at this time.

Most days I really like nurses, but some days I just hate all of us.

Sorry, I don't know where this is coming from.

mario_ragucci · Mar 18, 2003

Originally posted by nightngale1998
Mario... you really need to seek counseling regarding this issue of feeling male students need special counseling.
I think you still have a chip on your shoulder

Lol. Nightingale...I said male students who need help. I didn't say all. Lol. But it's okay to want to jump on me. I like to goof around :-)

The truth is: having a dialog when this is happening can prevent it and also pick up if a guy is saying it for no reason. Not to try to get someone in trouble either. Just to get some reasurance of what is happening will not go unheard. I know my paperwork was late, but damn. I heard someone mention they have the guys and the (gulp) girls do clinicals on seperate days. Lol. I wouldn't want that, but, really, all I want to do is learn nursing, and I will !

mario_ragucci · Mar 18, 2003

Originally posted by Dr. Kate
You know, Mario, what you interpreted as not wanting to work with a male nurse might well have been not wanting to work with a student.
It takes a strong ego to work in a male unfriendly environment. And as much as I hate to say it, if you aren't prepared to deal with it, maybe nursing isn't for you at this time.

Lol, point taken about the RN having a busy day; It may have been my interpretation and feelings at that time.

It's personality dynamics and people getting along and being friendly. You note how some hospitals are this way or that way. I agree. Never did I ever imagine a unit that can consist of 100% float RN's and staff. Imagine? You would have to friendly; How else can you be? :kiss

boggle, ASN, RN · Mar 18, 2003

Just another comment about staff nurses who don't want to work with students, (neither male nor female students.)

I know some nurses who act very threatened by a student looking over their shoulder. I think they feel their knowledge and practice is being challenged. Maybe they feel insecure? One of these nurses that I work with gets defensive if ANY nurse questions her, even if it is an innocent, no challange intended type question.

So I guess my point is you can't control others reactions. They often have nothing to do with you as an individual.

The only things you can control are your own actions. So be clear about what is expected of you. Be prepared. Be concise and to the point. Follow instructions. Do what you have to do (according to your sylabus) to meet your courses expectations. And as you do all those things, you will learn how to be a good nurse!

JMP · Mar 18, 2003

Mario

When people offer up advice THAT YOU ASKED FOR, what is with all the LOL's in your responses?

I find it odd. I think if we where discussing this in person, and you brought it up, and people with valued experience told you what they thought, took time to answer and you laughed ....well it would be insulting to me.

I often find your posts odd. Even inappropriate at times. Especially when you are talking about school, assignments, other nurses. IF a nurse find working with you hard-easy-difficult-whatever, understand this. ............ you are there to learn. Not to wonder what or why some RN's are thinking.

I think the discussion that some RN's don't care for students serves no point. It is our professsional responsiblity to teach others. Some people have natural ability, some find it harder than others. We all approach things differently.

I certainly went to school with students who where in the game for their third or fourth time. Wanting to BE A NURSE and being one are not the same. Nursing is not for everyone.

Get up off your one knee Mario. Stand up up and listen to what people are telling you... enough already with the "LOL's".

Believe it or not, I am giving you good advice UP TO YOU what you do with it.

BadBird, BSN, RN · Mar 18, 2003

Mario,

Do you have a local community college that has a ADN program?

I suggest you talk to a advisor at a community college, start with a 2 year ADN program, good luck.

nightingale, RN · Mar 18, 2003

Originally posted by mario_ragucci

Thats what makes it so hard to accept failing over paperwork.

I spoke about depression and am curious about chemicals and emotions. Over the last month my neuro-chemicals got a massive burst of saddness. I not depressed; I feel intensely sad because of this set-back.

drama and embellishment??? I do not think so....

Everyone... everyone who did not turn in paperwork in a timely mannar, in the school (first ADN then RN to BSN) I went to "failed the semester"; dependent on policy, you usually exit till a year after the "incident". I am sure many nurses on this board know of examples of this.

In the real world of nursing, you will also here of nurses who did not do paperwork adequately and are fired. "If it isn't documented then the care never happened." I heard of a nurse tell their story of being put on warning and documented through the Board of Nursing of their problem with inadequate documentation; I imagine this will stay on their record for quite some time (all new prospects of employment will know of this lack of proper documentation).

One of the hardest things I have ever done, is getting through nursing school. I feel for you Mario but I think you need to hear the truth; it just seems to me you are not dealing with it honestly.

baseline · Mar 18, 2003

sigh.........Haven't we done this before? I'm going to the cyber bar for a shooter!

maxthecat · Mar 19, 2003

Mario, I have followed your postings from the beginning. I have come away with certain impressions. These are JUST impressions

and I could be completely off base, but I share them with you because I believe that they may be helpful as you evaluate what went wrong with nursing school and as you make plans for the rest of your life.

I believe you are quite intelligent, have a good grasp of the sciences, and are eager to learn. This is wonderful. However, there is another type of intelligence, called "emotional intelligence" or "social intelligence," and I think that it is here that you are running into problems. For example, you seem to have fun playing with scientific terminology and carrying on conversations by describing everyday happenings in terms of neurotransmitters, etc. While this might be a fun game to play with a couple of your friends, it is not appropriate for public discourse. If you speak like this to your colleagues at work they are going to think you are "weird" (to put it bluntly), and, rightly or wrongly, people are going to start feeling uncomfortable around you. It may have nothing to do with your technical skills or nursing knowledge--if you make people feel uncomfortable you are not going to be a good nurse! A large part of nursing is working well with other people and if they're not sure how to take you (are you serious, are you joking?) you are going to get off on the wrong foot. You have to know who you can "play" with and who you can't, and you apparently are having trouble figuring that out. (I base that on the "misunderstandings" you report from patients and instructors.)

As for gender bias -- yes, it's out there, maybe you drew the instructor who has it in for males. However, you are not going to get anywhere by complaining about it and how it's unfair. Again,

you have to be able to work with people. I have had experiences where I believe a female physician had it in for c ertain nurses, but you know what...I could still work with her. Was she unfair to me sometimes? Yes. Did I ever do anything that she was right to be unhappy with, regardless of gender issues? Yes. But I picked myself up and learned how to work with her anyhow and get the best care for the patients instead of focusing on how biased she was or wasn't. Yes, I was irritated that one of her "favorites" could do something and it was fine and I could do the same thing and it was "wrong" -- but that's life. Move on.

Mario, I'm sorry that school didn't work out for you, but I'm troubled that you seem to have an excuse for everything. "If I'd just done x instead of y it would have all been OK." "If some people weren't out to get me I'd have done just fine." I join with others here who have suggested that you take a deeper look at your part in this, maybe even speak with a counselor for a more objective view of what happened. Until you do, I don't think you'll be able to be successful in nursing school or in the "real world." You need to look at what you need to do to move to a

higher level of maturity. Based on reading your posts (I realize you may be quite different in person) I don't feel that AT PRESENT you have the maturity required to be a successful RN. Doesn't mean you can't gain that maturity, though!

Harsh as this may seem I really do wish you well!

ktwlpn, LPN · Mar 19, 2003

Originally posted by baseline
sigh.........Haven't we done this before? I'm going to the cyber bar for a shooter!

Sure we have-it's a sport..and he keeps asking for lots of constructive criticism..I-for one-don't want to disappoint him....