ethical dilemma with a DNR last night

Nurses General Nursing

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so this situation is over and done with, but it's weighing heavily on my mind. i would like any input on what you guys think....

i had a patient last night with metastatic CA (originating in the bladder) who was on home hospice care. apparently he was admitted the night before with a bowel impaction, was disimpacted and was being given IV hydration for comfort before being sent back home with hospice.

the patient had signed a refusal of treatment form to say that he did not want CPR or intubation should his heart stop. day shift nurse passes on to me in report that we still need to obtain the physician's signature on the paperwork and a written order to honor the DNR. i spoke with my charge nurse at the beginning of the shift and she said we cannot honor the DNR that he signed without the doctor's order, she said we can call in the morning, he is stable and has no changes (our charge calls docs for night shift--and it has to be a supervisor plus 2 RN's to take any DNR order over the phone). i thought if a refusal of treatment was signed for anything, it meant don't do it, right?

pt was AAOx3 for the time i had him, got scheduled tramadol and one dose of 2mg dilaudid. vital signs were stable except he flip flopped being tachy-brady, which was no change since his admission the night before. at around 2:30am, the monitor tech calls to say he bradyed down to 47 and tached back up to 140 and back down again, just wanted me to be aware it was more frequent now. i went to check the patient, he was resting quietly and still breathing. i called the nursing supervisor to ask the what if question of what this man goes into an arrest, do we really need to code him? she said yes. i wanted him to go in peace if it was his time. his wishes were made clear by him and he was supposedly a hospice patient at home.

at 3am, the pt went into a 3rd degree AVB. i went to check the patient again and saw he was taking agonal gasps. his color had changed to very dusky and he had a very weak pulse. he was hardly perfusing. so with a very heavy hand, i pressed the code button and stood there like a dummy. i didn't want to start CPR, i didn't want to open his airway, i wanted to hold his hand and honor his wishes. i waited as the team arrived with the ER doc and i explained the situation to them. the ER doc was kind of just as perplexed as i was about the whole thing but he said i did the right thing in calling the code, he said he really needs the approval of the primary MD to terminate ACLS.

so here we are, code in progress on a supposed hospice patient with DNR wishes and metastatic CA. CPR in progress, i finally after 3 attempts and 10 minutes later, got a hold of the primary who spoke with the ER doc and told him to cease the code blue. where was the hospice paperwork? why didnt the doctor write a DNR under his admitting orders?

i was really in tears at this point. everyone kept saying i did the right thing. i don't feel like i did. i did what my supervisors told me was legally correct, with their stance being that the family could come back and say the pt was not AAOx3 at the time when the refusal of treatment paperwork was signed.... but the patient was on hospice care at home! is hospice rescinded or something if the patient gets admitted to an acute care area???

legally correct, yes. morally correct, no. i feel like the man was assaulted and battered and that we did not honor his wishes just cover our own tails. the man was suffering and in pain and wanted to die naturally. we did not intubate or defibrillate, and he only had one round of meds, as the ER doc was conservative in treatment bc of the situation.

i feel awful about it. why so many technicalities for this poor man? where did the line get drawn or the ball get dropped or whatever? why isn't a refusal of treatment good enough? and what's the deal with hospice pts in acute care? i am so confused. i feel like it was a code that never should have happened.

ugh.

i need to go to sleep.

Specializes in Hospice.
Something that happens here which might help explain a little bit, is that when patients are admitted to an acute care hospital, unless its the one that the hospice has a contract with, that patient will actually be taken off of hospice service for the duration of the admission. My understanding is that it has a lot to do with billing. Pretty sad that money and fear of being sued trumped the patient's wishes...

Not quite ... anyone on hospice can be admitted for care of conditions other than the hospice diagnosis ... ie if a patient on hospice for cancer breaks a hip, they can get treated without revoking hospice.

If a patient on hospice chooses to get more aggressive or life-extending care for the hospice-qualifying condition, then, yes, they need to revoke hospice or run the risk of getting billed for the care ... CMS does not pay for life-extending care.

In this case, the patient was admitted for palliative blood transfusions ... not intended to extend life but to treat the uncomfortable symptoms of severe anemia.

The situation as I understand it from the OP was that the patient himself wanted to be DNR and this was known to staff at the hospital. It was the MDs written acknowledment that was missing. IMHO, while the OP pretty much had her hands tied due to the lack of support from her chain of command, I still feel the patient's wishes should have been respected.

In situations where I know that the patient wishes DNR but nothing is in writing, I make it a priority to speak either to the patient, if competent, or the POA and ask directly, then document in my nurses' notes exactly what was said. It's the patient and/or family's decision, not the doctors or hospital administration.

Perhaps this can be referred to the ethics committee and to hosp. admin. to come up with more ethical guidelines for nurses in this situation.

Remind them that an unwanted code is actionable, too.

Specializes in Acute Care Cardiac, Education, Prof Practice.

I heard a story once about a patient who was a DNR (young cancer patient if I remember correctly) and she had a feeling she was going to die and verbally revoked her DNR to the nurse. Within minutes she coded and they code team refused to respond.

DNR is a tricky situation to navigate sometimes.

I am very sorry you had to go through this.

Tait

As most have said, the admitting Doc dropped the ball. You were put in a lousy position, and did the right thing.

I'll play devil's advocate here: The prevailing belief in this thread seems to be that because of the hospital policy, attempting resuscitation was the CYA move.

I disagree. The patient had made his wishes clear. The hospital violated those wishes, and in doing so committed an assault (maybe battery?) The fact that the hospital has a policy of assaulting patients who are unfortunate enough to have lazy or negligent doctors is irrelevant. The patient was competent when he made his decision, and there was no reason to think he had changed his wishes.

Any thoughts on this?

Specializes in EMS, ER, GI, PCU/Telemetry.
As most have said, the admitting Doc dropped the ball. You were put in a lousy position, and did the right thing.

I'll play devil's advocate here: The prevailing belief in this thread seems to be that because of the hospital policy, attempting resuscitation was the CYA move.

I disagree. The patient had made his wishes clear. The hospital violated those wishes, and in doing so committed an assault (maybe battery?) The fact that the hospital has a policy of assaulting patients who are unfortunate enough to have lazy or negligent doctors is irrelevant. The patient was competent when he made his decision, and there was no reason to think he had changed his wishes.

Any thoughts on this?

my supervisor said it's because we don't know that the patient was in his right mind and although he answered all questions appropriately still could have been "incapacitated" due to advanced disease to make this decision. also because the pt was on scheduled dilaudid she stated that made any documents signed by the pt within a 4 hour window of dilaudid being administered (which they were) could be questioned in court. and lastly, the refusal of treatment form refused only "CPR and intubation".... she said that leaves alot of ACLS out, and she's correct, because that does not address cardiac meds, extenal pacing/defibrillation.

i can see her point, i guess. i just didn't look at it that way, so when i brought it to her attention afterwards that is how she explained to me that we could not honor it.

after the case was reviewed, it was actually found that not only was it the admitting doc, something happened with hospice, they had not followed this pt to the hospital after the hospice nurse (per the family) who assessed the pt decided he needed to be admitted r/t dehydration and bowel impaction... it is policy of this hospice to follow pt to the hospital here and approve orders of what is appropriate and inappropriate for the pt. when the pt expired, i called hospice nurse on call, who stated they weren't aware of pt being in the hospital? BUT... what i'm wondering is that if the pt's family took him to the ER. the pt's family stated to me that they could not afford a funeral at the time the pt died...and that they weren't ready for him to go... so we don't know what happened, if they thought him being in the hospital would bide them some time, and the admitting doc didn't know the whole story? all very interesting to me.

he made it through the ER, the admissions unit and 2 other nurses on PCU without it being addressed. the day shift nurse before me had good intentions by having him sign the refusal of tx form, but really there was a period of 48 hours where it's kinda like.. what happened?

i learned a whole bunch of technical stuff i wasn't even aware of. lots of policies and procedures and loopholes. my director has reviewed the scenario and this is what she explained to me. hmm....

my supervisor said it's because we don't know that the patient was in his right mind and although he answered all questions appropriately still could have been "incapacitated" due to advanced disease to make this decision. also because the pt was on scheduled dilaudid she stated that made any documents signed by the pt within a 4 hour window of dilaudid being administered (which they were) could be questioned in court. and lastly, the refusal of treatment form refused only "CPR and intubation".... she said that leaves alot of ACLS out, and she's correct, because that does not address cardiac meds, extenal pacing/defibrillation.

i can see her point, i guess. i just didn't look at it that way, so when i brought it to her attention afterwards that is how she explained to me that we could not honor it.

after the case was reviewed, it was actually found that not only was it the admitting doc, something happened with hospice, they had not followed this pt to the hospital after the hospice nurse (per the family) who assessed the pt decided he needed to be admitted r/t dehydration and bowel impaction... it is policy of this hospice to follow pt to the hospital here and approve orders of what is appropriate and inappropriate for the pt. when the pt expired, i called hospice nurse on call, who stated they weren't aware of pt being in the hospital? BUT... what i'm wondering is that if the pt's family took him to the ER. the pt's family stated to me that they could not afford a funeral at the time the pt died...and that they weren't ready for him to go... so we don't know what happened, if they thought him being in the hospital would bide them some time, and the admitting doc didn't know the whole story? all very interesting to me.

he made it through the ER, the admissions unit and 2 other nurses on PCU without it being addressed. the day shift nurse before me had good intentions by having him sign the refusal of tx form, but really there was a period of 48 hours where it's kinda like.. what happened?

i learned a whole bunch of technical stuff i wasn't even aware of. lots of policies and procedures and loopholes. my director has reviewed the scenario and this is what she explained to me. hmm....

the bold part is bogus, need to have legally been assessed as incapacitated....the ital, is questionable, if this was his baseline med, or dose eq. ....bogus

just cyaing on the part of the ptb

Specializes in Acute Care Cardiac, Education, Prof Practice.

So basically your supervisor said that despite this man having very clear DNR instructions, that in the end he wasn't capable of continuing them? Isn't the whole point of advanced directives to help protect our wishes when we can no longer make that choice?

Sounds like...pardon me but total lazy bull ****.

Maybe I missed something in the type of HPOA or Advanced Directives this man on his chart?

Tait

Also having a hard time with this for a couple reasons.

The real question centers around the patient's wishes. How could a reasonable person believe that a hospice patient who had reiterated his wishes, wanted CPR? I try to see any issue from both sides, but for the life of me can't make an argument that supports this idea.

Regarding making decisions after being given a narcotic: Your hospital is going to have to throw out a whole bunch of surgical consents and agreements to pay.

Specializes in EMS, ER, GI, PCU/Telemetry.
So basically your supervisor said that despite this man having very clear DNR instructions, that in the end he wasn't capable of continuing them? Isn't the whole point of advanced directives to help protect our wishes when we can no longer make that choice?

Sounds like...pardon me but total lazy bull ****.

Maybe I missed something in the type of HPOA or Advanced Directives this man on his chart?

Tait

that was the problem. the ONLY thing on this chart was a peice of paper similar to one of those that you would sign to sign out AMA or refuse any other intervention, signed by the patient, with the check mark next to the box that said "i refuse the following treatment or intervention" with the paragraphs of baloney underneath saying i understand the risks of refusing this intervention and blah blah blah. this is the refusal of treatment form i posted about in my initial post. this form, in the end, ended up causing the most confusion. the patient and the day shift nurse signed it--the MD did not (which, in retrospect, might not have made a difference if we're following the reasons of why my boss said we couldn't honor it).

however, bc the MD did not sign it, did not initiate the hospital's required set of DNR paperwork and write a written order to continue hospice and to officially make pt a DNR, he was not considered a DNR. no state paperwork, no hospice paperwork, no five wishes paperwork, no living will, no HPOA, no nothing. just this refusal of treatment form with the interventions listed being CPR and intubation. the hospital requires, per their protocol, for the 3 forms (verification of incapacity, certificate of condition and withholding of life support) to be signed by 2 MD's before the pt is considered a DNR in our hospital...

so when i asked my director why we could not honor the refusal of treatment form, my previous post was the answer i got. this is why i am a lowly staff nurse. too much BS for me... makes me dizzy. my hands were completely tied by all these policies and i am disappointed in all of it. it never should have happened....

Specializes in COS-C, Risk Management.

Kudos to you for knowing what should've been done, even if your hands were tied and prevented from doing the right thing. This patient should've had the yellow DNR form from the state dept of health that is portable in and out of the hospital. Hospice provides this form at admission for all patients (is supposed to anyway) to cover siutations just like this. The Nursing Director who made this call should be intubated while conscious and paralyzed as a form of penance. You might consider calling the hospice provider and asking for a confidential meeting with their director of nursing to find out how this can be prevented in the future. If you have an ethics committee, this is an excellent case for review. If you don't have an ethics committee, consider going to the chief nursing officer or medical director and asking to have one started.

that was the problem. the ONLY thing on this chart was a peice of paper similar to one of those that you would sign to sign out AMA or refuse any other intervention, signed by the patient, with the check mark next to the box that said "i refuse the following treatment or intervention" with the paragraphs of baloney underneath saying i understand the risks of refusing this intervention and blah blah blah. this is the refusal of treatment form i posted about in my initial post. this form, in the end, ended up causing the most confusion. the patient and the day shift nurse signed it--the MD did not (which, in retrospect, might not have made a difference if we're following the reasons of why my boss said we couldn't honor it).

however, bc the MD did not sign it, did not initiate the hospital's required set of DNR paperwork and write a written order to continue hospice and to officially make pt a DNR, he was not considered a DNR. no state paperwork, no hospice paperwork, no five wishes paperwork, no living will, no HPOA, no nothing. just this refusal of treatment form with the interventions listed being CPR and intubation. the hospital requires, per their protocol, for the 3 forms (verification of incapacity, certificate of condition and withholding of life support) to be signed by 2 MD's before the pt is considered a DNR in our hospital...

so when i asked my director why we could not honor the refusal of treatment form, my previous post was the answer i got. this is why i am a lowly staff nurse. too much BS for me... makes me dizzy. my hands were completely tied by all these policies and i am disappointed in all of it. it never should have happened....

The fact that this bothers you so much shows your commitment.

There atre nurses who would have just shrugged their shoulders and moved on.

Specializes in Acute Care Cardiac, Education, Prof Practice.
that was the problem. the ONLY thing on this chart was a peice of paper similar to one of those that you would sign to sign out AMA or refuse any other intervention, signed by the patient, with the check mark next to the box that said "i refuse the following treatment or intervention" with the paragraphs of baloney underneath saying i understand the risks of refusing this intervention and blah blah blah. this is the refusal of treatment form i posted about in my initial post. this form, in the end, ended up causing the most confusion. the patient and the day shift nurse signed it--the MD did not (which, in retrospect, might not have made a difference if we're following the reasons of why my boss said we couldn't honor it).

however, bc the MD did not sign it, did not initiate the hospital's required set of DNR paperwork and write a written order to continue hospice and to officially make pt a DNR, he was not considered a DNR. no state paperwork, no hospice paperwork, no five wishes paperwork, no living will, no HPOA, no nothing. just this refusal of treatment form with the interventions listed being CPR and intubation. the hospital requires, per their protocol, for the 3 forms (verification of incapacity, certificate of condition and withholding of life support) to be signed by 2 MD's before the pt is considered a DNR in our hospital...

so when i asked my director why we could not honor the refusal of treatment form, my previous post was the answer i got. this is why i am a lowly staff nurse. too much BS for me... makes me dizzy. my hands were completely tied by all these policies and i am disappointed in all of it. it never should have happened....

In the end the doc really dropped the ball. I hate it too because I have had those situations...and then I have had the opposite where a patient was a DNR and was informed that if he chose to be a full code he would go to the ICU. He refused, while his family attempted to reverse it...at 2100 at night. I had every supervisor/chaplain/doc in the room or on the phone trying to ascertain what to do. In the end the man refused to drop his DNR.

Luckily nothing happened, because the next day the family revoked it, and he was in the unit for over a month I believe.

Ugh.

:icon_hug:

Tait

I still wonder where his POC and all that was, don't you have to have some of that done to be in Hospice or is it not required?

I posted on this thread during a quiet time in triage. I was called out of triage to pick up a pt: 83 y/o male, pacemaker/icd, dialasys, with a gi bleed.

He looked lousy. As an initial assesment had already been done, the first thing I did was find out his code staus. Turns out it was ambiguous. The actual paper chart had a living will section, with two documents filled out, but nothing expressing his wishes. Neither a recent H&P or DC summary adressed it. When the admitting doc came in, I adressed it with her. She had access to different electronic records than what we had, which indicated he was a DNR. I explained to her, that given the records we had access to, he was a full code, and requested that she write, on the admission orders, DNR/DNI. This order suffices in this hospital.

While your experience was a bad one, at least it had no adverse effects. By bringing the issue up, and putting it in the front of my mind, you may have prevented a similar incident. Pt is (maybe was) a very nice guy, with a concerned and appreciative family. It would have been terrible to subject any of them to needless suffering because our inabilty to properly maintain records.

Thank you.

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