EEK! There's a woman in my room! - page 4
Since the "man in my room" thread got closed, I thought I would try a different track. I want to focus on something a little different. :idea: We know the emotional responses we got to the idea... Read More
Nov 28, '07Occupation: RN Specialty: Day Surgery, Agency, Cath Lab, LTC/Psych ; Joined: Feb '07; Posts: 894; Likes: 1,097I have never heard of this disgusting practice.
I don't like to have male practitioners examine me and so I try to provide the same dignity to my male patients. I always allow them to do as much for themselves as they can. Unless a patient is completely unable they can usually clean their own peri-area. If they are very private I ask the spouse to help them.
I agree with whoever made the comment about nursing students leaving patients exposed for a long period of time while setting up for a Foley. We need to encourage students to respect patients modesty!
Nov 28, '07Occupation: Family Nurse Practitioner Specialty: 4 year(s) of experience in Pediatric Intensive Care, Urgent Care ; From: US ; Joined: Apr '04; Posts: 443; Likes: 251It's so funny you bring this up...just the other day in Class we had an "Old School" nursing insructor joke around saying to do that exact same thing, flick the penis or scrotum. Obviously everyone laughed but then i asked why would you do that and they all said because he shouldn't be getting an erection and my reply was "you couldn't be more ignorant than what you all are right now, when that occurs 99.9% of the times its not becuase you are sexually aroused, it's a nervous thing." Plus don't flatter yourself...laying in a bed, can't even get out of bed to pee on my own doesn't necessarily put me in a "sexy" mood. "So does that mean if i'm doing a breast exam and your nipples get hard that you are sexually aroused and i should flick your boobie???" It could be that you are cold...etc. It just urks me that people assume that an erection is a voluntary thing in those moments. As a patient I love my privacy...but i have never felt the need to discriminate between a male or female provider, BUT i will acknowledge that i don't particularly feel that hospital staff have ever made me feel that as a male i have that right. There are exceptions but i think those are only exceptions. I think that the overwhelming atmosphere in healthcare settings is that the male is made to feel that he has to "accept" who ever is giving him his care whereas women are made to feel that they do have a choice. In other words it usually isn't blatant but i do think that men feel/perceive in hospital settings that "if" they ask for someone else (male) it is perceived as an inconvenience, and that alone may cause guys to fore go that request, whereas women are made to feel that it is ok to ask for a female provider AND we will be more than happy to oblige. That's all that needs to happen in order for it not to be "equal"...Remember perception is often times more real than reality itself.
Nov 28, '07Joined: Sep '05; Posts: 1,277; Likes: 359Quote from cyberkatcyberkat - I agree with you - there is no need to totally expose a patient during any cares.As for the OP, I've never heard of this, and have never been taught such a thing. It's despicable. How long ago was this? If a man has an erection during basic care, I don't make any sort of deal out of it. I, and every nurse I know, understands this is as mainly just a reflex and doesn't necessarily have anything to do with arousal.
I do agree, that when I'm taking care of a male patient that I encourage him to do as much cleaning of himself as possible. But I do the same for females as well. It's a matter of offering as much privacy as possible. It's the same with exposing the patient only as much as necessary to get done what needs to be done, that includes giving an IM injection.
I was also NOT taught to flick or strike a mans genitalia - it sounds cruel to the max.
Nov 28, '07Specialty: 4 year(s) of experience in LTC/ rehab/ dialysis ; Joined: Jun '07; Posts: 82; Likes: 94It's pretty sad that something like that would actually happen. I've experienced several situations where a male involuntarily become erect. I've always ignored it and finished up as quickly as I could. I did have one situation where the erection was accompanied by a vulgar comment and a suggestion of what the pt would like for me to do. The patient was quickly informed that his inappropriate comments would not be tolerated in no uncertain terms....... But wow, touching a patient in a harmful fashion. That's battery, plain and simple.
Nov 28, '07Occupation: PoPoAV8tor From: US ; Joined: Mar '06; Posts: 316; Likes: 239Quote from ToquayGood question Toq. Here is the sequence of events. Had a sports injury, broken left ring ringer requiring surgical repair. Went in hosp Sun nite for Mon AM surgery. Gen anesthesia, out like a light, sick the rest of the day and into the evening, throwing up constantly. After visiting hours were over Mon nite, mom left and that's when the nurse decided to bathe me. Semi private room but the guy next to me was doped up with pain meds and was deep asleep for the night. Plus his wife had left. No one but me and the nurse. ( heart pounding now ) After she did the deed I let out a yell but the damage was done in an instant and I just curled up and pulled the sheets around me. End of bath. Got some meds for sleep and nausea. Different crew on in the morning. After more meds for nausea I was discharged about noon on Tues. Doc saw me briefly but was only looking at the finger. Went home, stayed in bed sick for several more days and was moving around by the weekend and back in school next Monday. The scrotum swelled to the size of a baseball, all black and blue. That went down in a few days but the right testicle was really hurting and was downright excruciating at times. It eventually settled down to just throbbing and being tender, on the pain scale it varies anywhere from 1 to 4. It remains that way today, a constant dull ache and throbbing sensation. So mom and doc never knew about it as I couldn't tell anyone. Just too difficult. Even when I decided to visit a urologist (at age 25) about a palpable lump on the right side I couldn't muster the nerve to tell him how it happened. He decided that it was a torsed appendix of the testicle but I am sure he would have had a different opinion had I been able to give him all the info. At least I knew it wasn't cancer so I have decided to live with it and the constant pain.It is indeed awful the OP experienced such cruel care. All people, male or female, should be given the utmost privacy as is possible along with respect. Question for the OP. Since you had physical life changing damage that required quite a bit of healing, how did you explain this damage to your doctor and your mother (being a minor at age 16 she had to be informed about plans of care)? I would think the nurse doing this damage would have been caught, unless the doctor felt torsion or some other cause was the reason for the damage at the time.
So my ortho surgeon never knew about it, consequently it was not a factor in the plan of care. I doubt the nurse charted it. She got away with it at least as far as I'm concerned. I know now if I had been able to speak up I may have prevented harm from coming to other patients treated by this nurse.Last edit by 58flyer on Nov 28, '07
Nov 28, '07From: US ; Joined: Oct '06; Posts: 183; Likes: 95Some men could be afraid of asking for another male to do his care because, he could be afraid of seeming like a homosexual. And some wouldn't want another man anywhere near him for the same reason. So it can become more complex than just sending in a male to do care for a male. But if we all practice being good sensitive nurses, we will know what to do when the time comes. All of our patients are different and we have many different cultures to deal with and we should all do the best we can all the time. And there should not be any assaults anywhere anytime. Jeff
Nov 28, '07From: US ; Joined: Jul '07; Posts: 129; Likes: 173Thx for the answer Flyer and my heart goes out to you and anyone injured in such a barbaric way. It is wonderful you have to courage to speak up and this may prevent another from being hurt in the same manner. No matter what school you went to or how thorough your education, there is nothing better than learning from each other.
Golden Rule should always apply....Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.
Nov 28, '07Joined: Sep '07; Posts: 12; Likes: 3Quote from JokerhillYeah...I don't know if I'm in the majority of males when I say this, but as a PT, certain violations of privacy, (IE getting a cath pulled) there just isn't a right gender. Give me a male or a female, I don't really care..it's all the same to me. If I had it my way, they'd tell me how to pull it and I'd do it myself. Anyway, as a "straight" guy...I'd much rather a straight woman than a gay guy. May sound stupid, but for that reason I probably wouldn't ask for a male nurse.Some men could be afraid of asking for another male to do his care because, he could be afraid of seeming like a homosexual. And some wouldn't want another man anywhere near him for the same reason. So it can become more complex than just sending in a male to do care for a male. But if we all practice being good sensitive nurses, we will know what to do when the time comes. All of our patients are different and we have many different cultures to deal with and we should all do the best we can all the time. And there should not be any assaults anywhere anytime. Jeff
That said, if I'd been abused by a woman like in the original post, you bet I'd insist on a male every time.
Nov 29, '07Occupation: PoPoAV8tor From: US ; Joined: Mar '06; Posts: 316; Likes: 239Quote from JokerhillThat has occurred to me as well, but I am past the point of caring about it. I really don't care to know the sexual orientation of my male caregiver, if he's straight fine but if he's gay he's not likely to put moves on a patient anyway. Not to slam the ladies but one thing I have observed through the years is that men are consistently professional when caring for patients. I have seen very little unprofessionalism from male nurses, techs, orderlies, cna's, you name it. Can't say the same about male docs though. It used to bother me to ask for same gender care, but that because I was worried about offending anybody or putting them through trouble for me.Some men could be afraid of asking for another male to do his care because, he could be afraid of seeming like a homosexual. And some wouldn't want another man anywhere near him for the same reason. So it can become more complex than just sending in a male to do care for a male. But if we all practice being good sensitive nurses, we will know what to do when the time comes. All of our patients are different and we have many different cultures to deal with and we should all do the best we can all the time. And there should not be any assaults anywhere anytime. JeffLast edit by 58flyer on Nov 29, '07
Nov 29, '07Occupation: RN Specialty: 4 year(s) of experience in Trauma ICU, MICU/SICU ; Joined: Sep '03; Posts: 1,119; Likes: 113I didn't read this whole thread due to the large response...
I took care of a young male patient (17) with an incomplete spinal cord injury. He had sensation, but no motor. We have this idiot and insensitive PA who decided that he needed to learn how to self cath. This was before he was able to tolerate sitting in a chair, in addition it was the day before he was to go to his brother's funeral.
Anyway, he needed to be straight cath'd and everytime you pulled back the sheet he would get an erection. Because he had sensation, he could feel that he had an erection. Before I went in to straight cath him (knowing this would happen) I asked a nurse with 30 years of experience what to do. She said, if you can make him laugh it will go right down. So, I went in and lifted the sheet and he had an immediate erection. I continued to prepare the cath and just had conversation with him. I don't remember what I said, but I did get him to laugh, but his erection did start to go down. I cath'd him quickly and made no mention of his erection.
I also spoke with another PA and had his foley catheter put back in until an appropriate time (like rehab) to educate him on straight cathing.
I'm so sorry that you were abused while you were in the hospital. That is just awful. I have never heard of what you experienced and we do see Spinal cord and brain injured patients who get frequent erections.
Nov 29, '07Joined: Sep '03; Posts: 6,885; Likes: 12,48658flyer, thanks for sharing your story. It took courage.
I am appalled that you were subjected to such cruelty.
Nov 29, '07Occupation: midwife practitioner Specialty: 12 year(s) of experience in midwifery, NICU ; From: SC ; Joined: May '05; Posts: 1,742; Likes: 56958flyer..have been following this post for the past few days. Babe, I'm so sorry that your life was affected so much by the barbaric action of an old witch! Please, believe, not all females would take pleasure in striking a man on the place thats goin to cause the most pain and damage. That would be an off the register offence for any sick perpitrators! Hope she pays dearly for the damage she has caused you. Any sane female would respect male as well as female rights to privacy/bodily functions etc! All the best to ya babe, hope things turn out OK for you! Hope the Auld WITCH who flicked your bits ...well, lets just say, hope she feels physical, heart and soul pain ...a million times over!
Dec 2, '07Specialty: LTC ; From: US ; Joined: Jun '05; Posts: 320; Likes: 107The OP asked:
How widespread is this?
I wonder if I encountered the aftermath of an improper assessment during clinical training, while bathing a gentleman who had recently suffered a stroke. He had “edema” I was told, but his scrotum was the size of a grapefruit, and I don’t recall any swelling anywhere else. We kept that part of him elevated on a pillow, and were very careful with repositioning. I don’t know much about stroke patients, so maybe there is another explanation?
How many of you learned to do that in school?
Maybe learned it after school?
Have any of you ever done it to your male patients?
Ever hear other nurses talk about it?
"Lawsuit" tends to be mentioned in tandem with scrotal thumping, which makes it a thing of the past, but does the gender biased atmosphere which once advocated such behavior still exist?