Covert Pelvic Exams??!

emily_mom · Mar 13, 2003

#1- that "not so fresh" feeling hit me today

#2- didn't feel like sloshing around w/ lube in my drawers all day

JUST KIDDING!!!

wanted to watch the girls state basketball game on TV (GO CARDS!!! WOOT!)

pure and utter laziness of spring break...:)

PowerPuffGirl · Mar 13, 2003

I think the key point is the issue of consent.

Now, if I was asked permission to have a student or two practice a pelvic on me, when I was under anesthesia, I'd probably consent...

But, I found be outraged if I found out, after the fact, that anywhere from 2-??? students used me as a pelvic-puppet... I would feel extremely violated.

As I said, it all goes back to consent. If my consent is not obtained, than there's this paternalistic "what the little lady doesn't know, won't hurt her" sort of attitude.

OBNURSEHEATHER · Mar 13, 2003

Originally posted by PowerPuffGirl
pelvic-puppet...

Oh, now that's funny.

jnette, ASN, EMT-I · Mar 13, 2003

Originally posted by PowerPuffGirl consent...
But, I found be outraged if I found out, after the fact, that anywhere from 2-??? students used me as a pelvic-puppet... I would feel extremely violated.
As I said, it all goes back to consent. If my consent is not obtained, than there's this paternalistic "what the little lady doesn't know, won't hurt her" sort of attitude. [/b]

Amen !

Da** !!! Sure didn't know THIS goes on out there !

How rude. Kinda like being drugged, then raped. What a bunch of crap THAT is !

PowerPuffGirl · Mar 13, 2003

Another very interesting article on this topic...

http://www.philly.com/mld/inquirer/5357457.htm

emily_mom · Mar 13, 2003

Thanks for the link. That last paragraph really says it all!

Kristy

kittyw · Mar 13, 2003

Even if it was on the authorization form, if the print was of a different (smaller) size or written in such language that the average person would not be able to understand, then there was no real consent. It would be interesting to see an actual consent form used.

Our school uses paid surrogates. $50 per exam. We did 4 exams in about 15 minutes total. Not bad pay if it doesn't bother you.

EmeraldNYL, BSN, RN · Mar 13, 2003

Yikes..... I know my fiance's med school hires an ex-prostitute so they can learn how to do pelvic exams.

discarded APN · Mar 13, 2003

Here's another related article. They say that the consent will stay the same, but now the patient will be informed of the exam and given the chance to decline. Seems they thought they were "covering" themselves by getting "consent" just decided to play dumb on the INFORMED part.

Medical College of Wisconsin revises pelvic exam policy

By MARILYNN MARCHIONE

[email protected]

Last Updated: March 12, 2003

Medical College of Wisconsin officials agreed Wednesday to stop performing pelvic exams on unconscious, anesthetized women having surgeries or other procedures without getting their specific consent in advance.

The college acted after being called by state Reps. Mark Gundrum (R-New Berlin) and Sheldon Wasserman (D-Milwaukee), who read a newspaper article Wednesday about prominent medical schools around the country abandoning the practice.

Gundrum and Wasserman, a Milwaukee-area obstetrician-gynecologist, learned Wednesday that the University of Wisconsin Medical School has been getting written consent before such examinations for years, but that the Medical College of Wisconsin has not.

The Wauwatosa medical college uses paid volunteers in training first- and second-year medical students on how to do pelvic exams, said Richard Katschke, the school's associate vice president.

However, medical residents and third- and fourth-year students doing OB/GYN rotations have been permitted to do pelvic exams on any patients having procedures for which an exam is required.

Every patient having surgery at a medical college facility signs a form consenting to medical students' and residents' participation in their care in general, and "it has been deemed that that would be consent for any kind of educational activity," he said.

On Wednesday, Dwight Cruikshank, chairman of the medical college's department of obstetrics and gynecology, agreed to change the school's policy immediately.

The consent form will stay the same, but women will be told about the pelvic exam and offered the chance to decline having a student perform it, Katschke said.

A version of this story appeared in the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel on March 13, 2003.

P_RN, ADN, RN · Mar 13, 2003

Not exactly the same but once my neurologist asked if I minded having two medical students sit in on my exam......I said I did not want them there.

The next day, I overheard those two medical students in the CAFETERIA joking and laughing about the pathetic, staggering patients they had seen yesterday, and how some snotty nurse had refused.

I then picked up the phone and called my doctor.

Never saw those two again.

Furball · Mar 13, 2003

If they would just ASK...geesh! I took my son in to have a heart murmur evaluated a while back. The cardiologist asked if it was ok with me if a bunch of med students came in to listen to my son's heart...I said "sure!" About 10 of them marched in and my son sat and smiled through the whole thing. He felt special...boy!

Now..a PELVIC EXAM without your knowledge or consent? That is outrageous! I'm flabbergasted....

BernieO · Mar 13, 2003

I am an ovarian cancer survivor. I get pelvic exams every 3 months from my gyne/oncologist in a large teaching university clinic. Each exam, a medical student also does the pelvic. My doctor always asks first and I am pleased to help a future doctor learn about ovarian cancer detection. The exams are always done in a professional manner.