BYOB at work? - page 2

Need your excellent, expert advice! Recently while at work, it was brought to my attention that another nurse had brought beer FROM HOME and gave it to a vulnerable adult in our Special Care Unit as... Read More

  1. by   Kayauhs
    Quote from ruby_jane
    CNA saw it. Let the CNA report it. I think your concern is larger and wider (who brings ANYTHING from home to give to a patient???)
    I agree with you!! She was VERY afraid. She had told another co-worker about it prior to coming to me and she was told, "Oh that's been going on for ten years and we tell the DON and she does NOTHING about it".

    Around here if you make too much noise you get fired. I do not care.

    On this subject though, as the RN, even if the CNA saw it and didn't 'report it, if the CNA tells ME about it, I'm mandated by my state to report it. I don't know what it's like in any other state but in my state that's the law.
    Last edit by Kayauhs on Mar 6 : Reason: adding thoughts
  2. by   caliotter3
    If you prevented the CNA from being fired in retaliation, then good for you. Now that all has been decided since the resident's doctor refuses to sign an order for future dispensing of alcohol, move on to the rest of your tasks.
  3. by   Nascar nurse
    I must really be missing something here. I'm assuming this is in LTC with the usage of the term resident. I am a DON in LTC with 30+ years experience in LTC. If a resident wants a beer - get a physician order, get the family OK if resident not cognitive enough to make that decision, put it on the careplan & let them have a beer. The chances are high that if a resident is requesting a beer it's because they've been drinking a beer for 50+ years - this is their home - who am I to decide (within reason of course).

    I'm missing the outrage over someone bringing it from home. It's not like you can order it thru pharmacy. Certainly no one should be "sneaking" it in to a resident from home but rather than wasting a bunch of time being outraged and ready to get someone in trouble for this, wouldn't it be more productive to just work on getting the OK from the Dr. and family?
  4. by   Farawyn
    Quote from Nascar nurse
    I must really be missing something here. I'm assuming this is in LTC with the usage of the term resident. I am a DON in LTC with 30+ years experience in LTC. If a resident wants a beer - get a physician order, get the family OK if resident not cognitive enough to make that decision, put it on the careplan & let them have a beer. The chances are high that if a resident is requesting a beer it's because they've been drinking a beer for 50+ years - this is their home - who am I to decide (within reason of course).

    I'm missing the outrage over someone bringing it from home. It's not like you can order it thru pharmacy. Certainly no one should be "sneaking" it in to a resident from home but rather than wasting a bunch of time being outraged and ready to get someone in trouble for this, wouldn't it be more productive to just work on getting the OK from the Dr. and family?
    I had a patient have a beer in his doc's orders in the hospital. We poured half in his PEG every day. The family provided it and we kept it in the med fridge.

    The biggest thing was the doc's orders not being there, but it's not unheard of.
  5. by   Davey Do
    Quote from Kayauhs
    So here's what I did. I snuck outside and made sure this nurse's car was unlocked. Then I grabbed two big bags of fermenting BM and urine filled briefs and I hid them under the nurse's back car seat. Then, I went online and I signed this nurse up for every dating site I could find under titles like, "Sasquatch needs a mate", "Dating in the Himalayans", "The Russian Penninsula is calling you for Love".

    THEN, I registered this nurse for as many political online forums I possibly could and listed the nurse's phone number and requested calls DAY OR NIGHT.

    THEN, I registered the nurse with the Foreign Legion.

    THEN, I caught a wild racoon and turned it loose in the nurse's car.
    My pulse quickened. My eyes widened, pupils dilated. My breath bated.

    I truly believed I'd found my soul mate.

    Then, reality came crashing down.
    Quote from Kayauhs
    I'M TOTALLY JOKING I DIDN'T DO ANY OF THAT.
    Alas... and forlorn...
  6. by   Davey Do
    caption-contest-2018-
  7. by   JKL33
    I couldn't pick either poll choice.

    It would've made me uncomfortable simply because I wouldn't want to be mistaken for an accomplice or find myself in trouble for not acting upon my knowledge.

    I would've tried talking to my coworker > "Hey, I know this hasn't ever caused any problems and good on you for trying to do something nice for the guy. Why don't we just get an order for it so no one has to worry about it - - and while we're at it we can figure out the right way to get it in here without essentially bootlegging."

    I have to say, I will usually run the other way from making federal cases about things that haven't hurt anyone for "years." Since I personally believe this whole world would be a lot better off without the commoners feeling obliged to police each other at every turn, I refuse to be reactionary or to play "gotcha," as much as reasonably possible. So I would talk to her first and cross my fingers that she would see reason.
  8. by   psu_213
    Quote from Kayauhs
    I'm sure glad you didn't miss it because they sure did where I work! My co-workers kept saying, "Well if the resident has a doctor's order for it, what's the problem?" I just shake my head.
    I guess I'm having trouble finding the outrage toward the other nurse giving the pt alcohol, but I don't work in LTC, so I will leave that debate to those nurses who do.

    I put this quote up there because I am particularly struck by one thing--how many people did you tell about this? If I'm not mistaken, you had another post in here where you mentioned talking about it with others at work. Not saying you should not report it, but at this point you are spreading something you heard about second hand, which is a bit unfair to this nurse. In addition, you reported so you could protect the CNA who did not report it out of fear of retaliation. This violates her trust, and may make her feel like she should not come to you with issues--that you will just repeat to others what she said in supposed confidence. Finally, someone might figure out/suspect that she was in the individual who told you about this in the first place, so she still might have to deal with the retaliation issue. Again, report it to superiors if you see fit, but I would not be going around talking about it with your coworkers.
  9. by   Kayauhs
    Mistaken entry, wrong page.
  10. by   Kayauhs
    Quote from Davey Do
    caption-contest-2018-
    YOU ARE TOO FUNNY!!!!
  11. by   Kayauhs
    Quote from psu_213
    I guess I'm having trouble finding the outrage toward the other nurse giving the pt alcohol, but I don't work in LTC, so I will leave that debate to those nurses who do.

    I put this quote up there because I am particularly struck by one thing--how many people did you tell about this? If I'm not mistaken, you had another post in here where you mentioned talking about it with others at work. Not saying you should not report it, but at this point you are spreading something you heard about second hand, which is a bit unfair to this nurse. In addition, you reported so you could protect the CNA who did not report it out of fear of retaliation. This violates her trust, and may make her feel like she should not come to you with issues--that you will just repeat to others what she said in supposed confidence. Finally, someone might figure out/suspect that she was in the individual who told you about this in the first place, so she still might have to deal with the retaliation issue. Again, report it to superiors if you see fit, but I would not be going around talking about it with your coworkers.
    Well, reading this was very interesting. Human behavior fascinates me.

    So much always seems to be lost or misunderstood on forums like this. It's fun to watch that's for sure.

    I didn't hear this second hand, after the CNA told me about it I immediately went to investigate what was going on because that is what I am legally required to do in my state. (I'm beginning to really love my state). You assumed that I spoke to my co-workers about this other nurse and used her name. Wrong assumption.

    I wasn't 'protecting' the CNA, she reported this to me, expressed that she was too afraid to report it herself. As I've said, in my state if it's reported to you as the RN you are mandated to report it, to act on it, to protect the patient or resident. That's the law in this state.

    As far as 'outrage' at a nurse giving alcohol to a patient or resident, that was not the issue here at all.

    The issue here is a nurse bringing alcohol which is a legal drug FROM HOME and giving it to a vulnerable adult without a doctor's order or the family/guardian consent. That's not right and I don't care how long it's been going on.

    Just because something has been going on for a long time does not make it right. People have been robbing banks for 200 years, it doesn't make it right.

    A huge problem in LTC is some of these actions have been going on for years and the bully old nurses will make life a living hell for anyone who challenges them.

    It's time for nursing to change. It's time for nursing to become the profession it is suppose to be. That will never happen as long as people look the other way and say, "Oh it's always been this way".
  12. by   Kayauhs
    Quote from JKL33
    I couldn't pick either poll choice.

    It would've made me uncomfortable simply because I wouldn't want to be mistaken for an accomplice or find myself in trouble for not acting upon my knowledge.

    I would've tried talking to my coworker > "Hey, I know this hasn't ever caused any problems and good on you for trying to do something nice for the guy. Why don't we just get an order for it so no one has to worry about it - - and while we're at it we can figure out the right way to get it in here without essentially bootlegging."

    I have to say, I will usually run the other way from making federal cases about things that haven't hurt anyone for "years." Since I personally believe this whole world would be a lot better off without the commoners feeling obliged to police each other at every turn, I refuse to be reactionary or to play "gotcha," as much as reasonably possible. So I would talk to her first and cross my fingers that she would see reason.
    Often times when we read something we can infer that there is a 'tone' to what was written.

    As I re-read my original post, I don't see anywhere in that text that I have suggested a "Gotcha" mentality, or a "Tattletale" self-appointed hall monitor to the world of nursing title.

    I do not have to defend myself or my actions because my board of nursing has already given me very clear directions on what to do when I am in these situations. I will always error on the side of the patient or resident. I will always be a patient advocate, I don't care if I'm friends with someone who is doing this kind of crap. These kind of friends I don't need.

    Nurses ARE the gate keepers to this whole thing. We have to monitor ourselves and each other's actions. If not us then who?

    As far as "Crossing my fingers and hoping"? Good luck with that in a court of law. This resident has multiple medical issues and is on a ice cream bucket full of pills. There is a reason he doesn't have an order for alcohol. Aside from that, this person is a vulnerable adult. There are laws in place in this state concerning the treatment of vulnerable adults and as long as I take a breath and hold a nursing license I will defend these people no matter what. If I can't do that? then what am I worth?

    Maybe next time she decides a little cocaine would be a good thing. Or ? a little something else sprinkled on his cereal. Where does it end?


    By the way I did speak with this nurse. You have to be very, very careful when talking to someone about this type of thing. If I ignore it and the the patient has an adverse effect and this heads to court? I'm done.
  13. by   Kayauhs
    Quote from Davey Do
    My pulse quickened. My eyes widened, pupils dilated. My breath bated.

    I truly believed I'd found my soul mate.

    Then, reality came crashing down.

    Alas... and forlorn...
    OH YOU MAKE ME LAUGH!!!! My pulse quickened and my cheeks were flushed when I read your response! I've always wanted a soul mate but I've been around the block more times than the Girl Scouts selling cookies. No hope for me. (big sigh).

    P.S. I may have done these things but would never admit to it online! Baahhhhaaaa evil laugh.

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