'Borderline' students?

Nurses General Nursing

Published

Ok, this is a vent. :(

In school, we have to participate in a survey about predicted college success vs home support systems, class load, work hours, etc. This is to receive a grant, and those funds will be allocated to help 'borderline' students succeed.

Borderline students? As in the students who can't pull off a 75 on an exam if their lives depended on it? These are the students we want to try to help graduate and be out on the workforce? I think its wrong to relax the standards and help those less intellectually focused to pass the program knowing that they will never pass boards and, if they do sneak through, they'll be horribly unsafe nurses.

Its bad enough that the minimum score on the ACT is a 20. One of my friends in school is in the program, right beside me, and scored an 18. WTF? What is the point of having standards if everyone doesn't have to adhere to them?

But no, now they are seeking money to hire special tutors and create college success courses for the students who can't seem to pass.

What do you think? There are admission standards, ongoing standards, for a reason... to 'weed out' the people who can't make it. Why cater to them, make it easy for them to pass, knowing they'll never be successful? To collect more tuition dollars? Improve their numbers of graduating students? It certainly won't improve the nclex pass rate.

People say I'm too hard on others. Ok, whatever. I do not want to work beside a borderline student who can't figure out a simple dosage calculation or doesn't know the difference between DI and DM.

Grrrr!

There should be minimum requirements for entrance into College to become a nurse. If you can maintain the minimum average and you aren't able to get beyond that and you are working your butt off I think you should be given a chance. "C" shouldn't be thought of as a bad letter......................

Specializes in OR.
"First-come, first-serve" admission is depressing to read about. First, with the shortage instructors avaible, those who are working have to put up with students who haven't been "sifted" yet to separate the wheat from the chaff. I had hoped that one good thing that would come out of this instructor shortage would be better students. There are plenty of other vocations for people who are academically challenged. Wouldn't it be better to get them enrolled in a program suited for them then to keep trying to hammer the square peg in the round hole?
My instructor and I were discussing this the other day... She stated that some people just do not have the aptitude to be nurses. Doesn't mean that they are inferior in some way, just means that this may not be the profession for them. And I'll probably get flamed for this, but she's right. This is a job where, if you goof up, you can kill someone. I do think that we all have our strengths and weaknesses and most of us will have difficuty with a concept or specific area in school. However, you have to be willing to work through it. No one should be coddled through the nursing program and we all should be held to the same standards. I'm all for using GPA and standardized testing to determine who gets a spot in clinicals-some students don't take it seriously. Why should they take up a spot that could go to a more qualified student? P.S. I don't think that feeling that standards are important makes one "snotty". I will be graduating soon and while there are students that get low grades that are excellent in clinical, they are the exception rather than the rule. I've been in the healthcare field for 10 years now and trust me , no one "gives you extra help" when you are out there in the trenches. It's sink or swim. Ultimately, all this hand holding and ambivalence about academics harms the nursing profession. It's only when nurses start to take pride in their scientific knowledge as well as the caring part of the profession that we'll get the pay and respect we all deserve. OK- I'll get down of the soapbox now...

You have to understand that a 75 is average- completely average, not bad, not good. For anyone wanting to help average students be more than average and to excell, I applaud every attempt at this.

Remember, one of our best presidents (kennedy) was a C average student and look at all he accomplished! Greatness can come out of averageness.

I would venture to guess there are more people than you can imagine that were 'C' average(Kerry was one of them too) in business or even never attended college or flunked out of college................

I agree with you 100% and you probably will get flamed because I certianly did. But that's okay. Not everyone is going to agree on everything - and that's okay too. But seriously, I couldn't agree more about "some students don't take it seriously". I think if one wants to succeed that there are plenty of resources (like this site) that can help them out. And having a high GPA doesn't mean that you will be an awesome nurse, but it should demonstrate that you are willing to do what it takes, which CAN make you an awesome nurse.

My instructor and I were discussing this the other day... She stated that some people just do not have the aptitude to be nurses. Doesn't mean that they are inferior in some way, just means that this may not be the profession for them. And I'll probably get flamed for this, but she's right. This is a job where, if you goof up, you can kill someone. I do think that we all have our strengths and weaknesses and most of us will have difficuty with a concept or specific area in school. However, you have to be willing to work through it. No one should be coddled through the nursing program and we all should be held to the same standards. I'm all for using GPA and standardized testing to determine who gets a spot in clinicals-some students don't take it seriously. Why should they take up a spot that could go to a more qualified student?

Bush is doing a better job than I ever could and I am a 4.0 student!!

I will not comment on this further as I did not intend my post to make this thread political, I was merely pointing out that C students can achieve greatness and that it is totally average, a point many seem to forget.

I'm sure you are right. That just popped into my head when I read what someone had wrote about former president Kennedy.

I would venture to guess there are more people than you can imagine that were 'C' average(Kerry was one of them too) in business or even never attended college or flunked out of college................
Specializes in OR.
You have to understand that a 75 is average- completely average, not bad, not good. For anyone wanting to help average students be more than average and to excell, I applaud every attempt at this.

Remember, one of our best presidents (kennedy) was a C average student and look at all he accomplished! Greatness can come out of averageness.

I also applaud helping someone be more than average and to strive to excel rather than just skate through. But wasn't Dubya a C student too? ;)

Isn't Bill Gates a college dropout?

Yes, there are many inequities in nursing on MANY levels. Having said that....GPA is a just a # and not generally a good indicator of how well someone will do in the work place. I'm an "average student" by the numbers, still not a good test taker, had "average" standardized test results, and do well at work. Yet, know people who had 4.0's and continue to have difficulty pulling things together at work. No I don't think the numbers tell the whole story and should be taken on a case to case basis. Delerium - I understand your frustration and can only suggest to that if this upsets so much, find someone in the faculty who can assist you in finding a forum/platform to either uphold the current standards or change them. I hope you understand that you may be shutting out some really wonderful future nurses (and glad to know that I will never be one of them) Good luck with the rest of your schooling.

Specializes in MICU.

What an interesting thread!

As long as extra help is available to all nursing students (time management classes, extra study sessions, resources @ the library), I don't have have a problem. In a country where education is often lacking, devoting resources to improving it is going to get applause from me. :yeah:

I am not a fan of lowering standards, and I agree that lifting the student is a much better plan.

I keep thinking about how we say it's "sink or swim" when we become part of the working world. But isn't that what we often complain about? That other nurses are unwilling/unable to help us? Maybe creating a culture of newer nurses more willing to help each other will help us all in the end.

Something to think about. :D

-S

Hmmm.... this is a toughie. I do think students should be given extra support (tutoring, extra reviews) if they need it and are willing to make the effort, but I certainly don't think standards should be lowered for some people simply because schools want the tuition money or because there's such a nursing shortage or whatever. Ideally, students should be weeded out in the admissions process rather than getting accepted, struggling, and flunking out.

Amen, esp. people who are willing to work AND (as above) PUT FORTH THE EFFORT. I can understand having a bad day and doing poorly, even "failing" a test (in nursing school jingo

Some people in my class scare me as nurses. However, I do not believe academics always makes a good/competent nurse but I would at least want a minimum level of competence. Since teaching is SUPPOSED to be an important part of caring for pts, I would at least like you to know what's going on. I have seen very little quality pt teaching in my 10+ yrs in healthcare. Could it be education ? Probably not entirely, but partially.

I would like to help people that worked at it. I have seen instructors help people who don't and are in danger of failing (by their own lack of study) but will not help the student who wants a good grade because, "Oh, okay you'll be okay. You'll pass." Whatever....I want to do well and if I am willing to work, help me too (or help me period!)

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