Are nurses and doctors equal?

[SisterofMary]

I feel like this question as been abused over time but I think in nursing school I was taught to respect my position and the importance of nursing care in patient's outcomes. Although I respect the doctor tremendously, should I consider myself an equal? Or a subordinate? I feel like it matters in terms of nurse to patient interaction. I do have patients who value my logic and thought processes but also who think I am the doctor's lackey. I think to be a nurse you have to have humility and for one's ego to be set aside because our decisions do require medical supervision. And I don't have problems being humble.

I still consider myself a new-ish nurse with a lot to learn about nursing. I consider myself competent with a commitment to learning. I am still working on confidence building.

Thoughts?

[Ann E Willett RN]

Does not necessarily mean that they have the ABILITY to do all the things an RN can do either.

If you are always dropping NG tubes, starting IV lines & drawing ABGs & they aren't, who does it the best? A nurse,! I have also worked with some ER Docs who were excellent! Others had no clue how to apply their learning. Ask me to assess? I don't get paid for that!! Fire them? Hell YES! Will the hospital? Hell No!

[KelRN215, BSN, RN]

In one unit I worked in - PICU...Only a Nurse

Or respiratory therapist was allowed, by policy to "watch" a patient in a vent. It always explained that the doctors didn't have the same knowledge on how to manage the vent. I know that seems weird given that the doctors wrote the vent orders, but they were not knowledgeable on how

to operate the vent or the IV pumps for that matter. Anesthesiologists the exception.

I am sure most nurses with experience can attest that the doctors have no clue (some know more than others) as to how to do the things that nurses do. It's not their job or their role to do so. Therefore, we are NOT interchangable. NOT equal, but not less or more. Does that make sense? As others have said, it takes the whole team to care for patients, including housekeeping staff. (Sometimes I wonder if we need all the administrators though!!!! Hee hee)

A couple months ago, I was at a GI appointment with a 2 year old patient of mine, her grandmother (who is her foster mother), and her biological father was there with her CPS worker. Her father asked the doctor to teach him how to use her feeding pump. The very experienced Attending Physician's eyes grew wide and he said "I can't teach you how to use the pump, I don't know how to work the pump." Guess who's going to be the one to teach him and the child's biological mother? Yours truly.

My maternity clinical instructor always told us when I was in nursing school that patients are hospitalized because they need nursing care and if they just needed the MD, they would see him in his office.

[K9lover, ASN, RN]

Equal as a human. Not so much in the length of education and responsibility, when the landsharks AKA malpractice attorneys start swimming around it is the MDs they are heading for.

Seriously, why do people bounce this question around? Pilots and co-pilots don't blog about which one is more important, chefs and prep cooks work side by side in peace...

[WestCoastSunRN, MSN, CNS]

I'm subordinate to my nurse manager. She's my boss. I answer to her. I don't answer to any of the docs I work WITH. We do work together to take care of patients. I need them to know their stuff and perform procedures and surgeries that are outside my scope or ability. I need them to function at the top of their

licensure and capability for the sake of my patients because I advocate and serve my patients. Likewise they need me to function at the top of my licensure. They don't make decisions in a silo. In rounds we all discuss what's going to happen. Obviously they usually have better ideas than me about the medical management piece. Usually but not always. It's literally in my job description to question them about antibiotic usage, for example. But the reality is they want to know nursing's perspective on the medical management. Cause we're the ones who are constantly there -- seeing it all play out and dealing with the medical management decisions in a much more intimate way than the MDs generally do.

They know we are on the same team. They ask, "what do you need from me?"

The relationship is collaborative.

edited to add: it would be silly to compare education, knowledge and licensure -- so I am assuming that is not what the OP is asking about --- though in reading responses, that is what is often being addressed. Should I get equal pay to an MD? Of course not! Do they know more than I do? I would hope so, since they have WAY more education than I do. But they are not super-humans. They cannot (as some have suggested) perform all the tasks of the care team single handedly. I don't know anyone who can. Again, we collaborate. And anyone who thinks nursing can't bring in money? A mint on a pillow can bring in money. You better believe outcomes are tied to nursing (among other things) and outcomes matter to the bottom line $$$$.

[Kooky Korky, BSN, RN]

I got into a discussion with someone in terms of nurse/doctor relations. They stated that nurses weren't equal to doctors because of schooling/knowledge/pay....which I agreed with. Though I said that doesn't minimize the importance of nurses (and other healthcare members) when it comes to the patient's health. Though they continued to say that nurses were "dispensable" because a doctor can do anything a nurse can do but not vise versa. I wasn't insulted so to speak though taken aback. I have had a few of the "Why a nurse, not a doctor?" conversations in my past but just wanted some other opinions so I respond to such statements in the future. That's why this came to my head.

Some nurses are more knowledgeable than some doctors or just as knowledgeable. If you think docs have all the knowledge, you are truly mistaken. Are you talking about an intern or resident or an attending who has kept up with current meds, treatments, diagnostics, or what?

Don't sell yourself short, Sister, or let anyone put you down..

Dispensable until someone needs the nurse to do something that doctors don't do.

[Everline]

As has been posted, I am not subordinate to any doctor. I am subordinate to my nurse manager. In addition, doctors don't order me to do anything. They write orders for the care of a patient and I may or may not follow their plan, depending on its appropriateness and safety for the patient. I respect most doctors and their education and knowledge and look to them to use that knowledge to help our patient. They are not better than me and I am certainly not better than them. We are part of a team that consists of different people with different skills and abilities.

[SisterofMary]

Thank you to all who commented on this thread.

Everyone provided some food for thought and argued both sides...

I don't know if I can say that as a nurse I am equal to a doctor in terms of years of study and salary...although I suspect that doesn't and shouldn't matter.

I think nurses and paraprofessionals are equal in their value and worth to the patient's health status - everyone from dietary, environmental services, management, e.t.c.

I suppose the discussion I had with that person rubbed me the wrong way because as a novice nurse I am trying to see myself as a professional and build that authority and confidence that my nurse leaders have. All things come with time....

Someone said in an above comment that the doctor's are the head of the healthcare team...although I'd have to disagree that the patient should be at the head and with that in mind, issues of hierarchy should fade away...