Agism in nursing???? (furious rant potential)

Nurses General Nursing

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I gave up just short of $1,000 in pay in order to attend an internship fair at Baylor Medical Center in Dallas in October. I dressed up, polished up my resume, made a bunch of copies. I shook hands, smiled, made eye contact, got a lot of encouragement, all the managers I spoke with said they were interested in me. Looked me right in the eye when they said it too.

Let's look at what I have (had) to offer:

By the time the internships start, I'll have a solid year of hospital experience. I volunteer at a community clinic, and I am taking Spanish in order to increase my ability to care for my Spanish-only patients.

I have an exceptionally good evaluation from my first supervisor, with complimentary remarks. I also have written praises from patients, maybe 15 or so that I can actually lay my hands on. Two supervisors and a handful of experienced RN coworkers have enthusiastically agreed to serve as references for me.

I graduated with a 4.0 in nursing from a college that is one of the 7 identified by the ANA for excellence in nursing education.

I have a bachelor's degree and a master's from my prenursing days. I am a dually licensed professional (in psychotherapy). I graduated Phi Beta Kappa from the bachelor's program, which was at a well known and well thought-of nearby state university.

Interestingly, I didn't get so much as an interview or the courtesy of a letter saying they weren't interested.

Gee, could it be because I'm not a 25 year old fresh out of school?

As it happens, I'm 52. My friend who went with me to the fair is 48, and they didn't bother giving her the time of day when it was all over with either. We both look pretty good for our ages. Not that that should matter.

I don't have a criminal record, never been arrested, never have done anything criminal that would have gotten me arrested!

Anybody else experiencing age-ism in nursing? Is there anybody out there who has successfully sued over it? I'm contemplating legal action and would love to hear from anyone with similar experiences, especially if you are in the Dallas area and know of an attorney adept and interested.....

Thanks. :angryfire

The good news is that, there is growing awareness among nurse researchers and hoo-has that the nurse workforce is aging and that, hey! older experienced bedside nurses just aren't just a drag on the budget and are walking potential workmen's comp claims, but actually have positives to offer, so we better find ways to retain them! (Sorry, do I sound cynical? I remember not long ago in the 1990s when management scrambled to find reasons to justify laying off older, higher paid RNs to save $$$) However, there is at least a 10 - 15 year time lag for latest research to trickle down to nursing management level, so they'd better hurry up so we don't all leave or retire early. Medscape has had a few articles recently on this.

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/537115?src=mp

And just discovered their bb:

http://boards.medscape.com/forums?14@@.29d5670b

I've also read more articles on how to adapt work environments to physical limitations of "older" RNs because we need to retain them at the bedside, but don't have references at my fingertips. Strangely, these are the same suggestions, such as lift teams, and other ergonomic adaptations of hospital nursing, that we've been trying to get going for decades for overall safety and to decrease wear and tear on ALL RNs -- if you help save the body of the 20-something RN, she's less likely to physically burn out and get injured and leave the profession in her 40's.

(BTW, I think older "newer" nurses also have as much to offer as older RNs -- from your life experiences and prior work experiences. I'm 49, anyway. And young RNs have a lot going for them, too -- I personally do not believe age in healthcare professions is an either/or !!!!! We are all in this together and need to support each other.)

There is ageism in Nursing, I am a student and I get treated like an amatuer. But I am an amatuer so maybe I'm wrong.

Specializes in ICU, ER, HH, NICU, now FNP.
There is ageism in Nursing, I am a student and I get treated like an amatuer. But I am an amatuer so maybe I'm wrong.

Hehehehe - that made me laugh. :)

it *IS* hard being an older student - you are wise, but you just dont know all the NURSING stuff so people treat you like a little kid. This too shall pass - soon enough you will not be a student anymore.

Before crying "age discrimination," you have to be sure there was nothing else that ruled you out as a candidate. Presumably if you were called in for an interview, they found something in your resume that was positive, despite knowing from your years of experience that you weren't 21. So look at your interview skills. Did you come across as experienced, or know-it-all? Was the first thing out of your mouth a demand that you be paid at the top of the pay scale? Did you focus on how wonderful you were at all the other jobs you've had, forgetting to let the interviewer know why you want and will be successful in *this* job? Did you dress appropriately, or did you pull out that outfit that looked really great on you in 1986, or worse, show up straight from work in your teddy bear scrubs? Did you make the mistake of assuming your experience would speak for itself, and forget that you still have to sell yourself and make a great impression?

I say this, being middle-aged myself and having felt the pinch of age discrimination. I do believe it exists, but before waving that flag, make sure it's the real reason you didn't get the job.

My take is that hospitals are more willing to train younger nurses as they are considered a better investment. I don't necessarily agree with this. My haunch is that they believe that if they train a younger nurse that that nurse will be with them for a lot longer. Again not necessarily true. Hospitals also pay attention to GPA and past work record. I have a friend who just graduated. She is 62 years old with a GPA of 2.1. She was also dismissed form her last job for reasons that were not entirely her fault. She has applied to many places and only receive a couple of interviews. I applies to 4 places and got interviews on 2 floors at each place. Neither place hired me. I had a 3.1 GPA in nursing classes and a 3.8 in every in all other classes. I was a little bit bumed out as part of the reason I went into nursing was because of the supposed easy of getting a job. I was especially surprised that I did not get a job one of the hospitals as it has a large spanish speaking population with few nurses who speak spanish. The next 2 places that I applied I was offered jobs almost on the spot. I don't kwow if it was age discrimination at the first 2 places or perhaps they had too many new grads. I do know that both still have many want ads posted. My guess is that every new grad will get a job, but that they will have to be willing to take less desirable positions and shifts, i.e. a med/surge floor 3:00 PM till 11:30 PM to start out.

Discrimination against the aging worker is not just contained in the nursing field. I think that as the age for retirement goes up that there will be more older people forced in the job market and will be seen as a threat by the younger work force and therfore target of more discrimination. These people need to realize that we are their future and how they deal with us now will be how they are dealt with when they reach our age.

Specializes in Jill of all trades, master of none?.

Your post struck fear in my heart. After breathing into a paper bag for a few minutes, I can attempt to reply. I am currently a student and will be (augh!) 57 when I graduate. I wish I had done this a few years ago, but wishing serves no purpose. Onward, through the fog! I spoke with several of my clients who are nurses because I did not trust the advisors at the college (they, after all, want my money). Every single person told me no, no, no ageism is at play. What is at play, according to the nurses, is being a newby. I have been told to be humble, smile, take the crappy job and shift, and be happy--in the beginning. It makes sense to me. Strangely, I have been told over and over that having a 4.0 is not as attractive to potential employers as, perhaps, a 3.5. I dont' understand, but I've been told too many times to not believe it. I too have a 4.0, and should it not "take care of itself" (and I feel confident it will) by the time I am finishing school, I will make sure that I drop it a smidge before I finish. I had a friend who thought she was experiencing ageism when she graduated, but then I realized that she was asking for specific floors, hours, no weekends, etc. She knocked it down a notch and got hired. No offense, but perhaps you should try being more "hat in hand"? Get your foot in the door first.

Specializes in Med/Surg <1; Epic Certified <1.
What is at play, according to the nurses, is being a newby. I have been told to be humble, smile, take the crappy job and shift, and be happy--in the beginning. It makes sense to me. Strangely, I have been told over and over that having a 4.0 is not as attractive to potential employers as, perhaps, a 3.5. I dont' understand, but I've been told too many times to not believe it.

I had a friend who thought she was experiencing ageism when she graduated, but then I realized that she was asking for specific floors, hours, no weekends, etc. She knocked it down a notch and got hired. No offense, but perhaps you should try being more "hat in hand"? Get your foot in the door first.

Perhaps the reason a 4.0 isn't as highly regarded is exactly for the reasons you outline....I don't care too much of what career you've chosen, unless you're the next Bill Gates, I think a "newby" should assume that you take what's available to you. You shouldn't expect to demand much more than that. Just because you've got the GPA, doesn't mean you've got a wit of common sense or compassion.

I fully expect to work nights, holidays, weekends. I'm fortunate that my baby is leaving for college and starts school 90 minutes from me the same day I start school. Once I graduate, I'll be happy to weed through the job openings and hopefully at least find one in an area I enjoy working in. But as for the hours I work that unit, I'll take what I can get and be glad for the experience that moves me that much higher on the food chain!!:trout:

Specializes in NICU.

gmta2000,

Good for you! I salute you for your service to us all!

I did 5 yrs w US Air Force during Viet Nam era but decided not to make a career out of it. Sometimes wonder if that was the best decision but no real regrets. Had a great time of it, many wonderful memories and experinces.

Don't get me wrong. Ageism is not universal; it's where you find it; not everywhere. I don't give it a lot of thought because I know I can do a lot of good with the years I have left in spite what anyone thinks about my age.

You KNOW your patients are going to appreciate your efforts if you do a good job for them (well, most of them). As long as they pay us on friday, who cares what anyone thinks about our age. And there is PLENTY of work out there for us! Even though most nursing schools have some sort of waiting list in recent years, I don't see a job shortage happening during my lifetime; probably never. I don't believe there will ever be enough people who are willing to do the work that nurses have to do and to put up with what nurses have to put up with to ever generate a surplus.

wdwpixie,

You are soo right. My wife knows her job well and I long ago learned that to argue is to waste both our time!

Best of luck all,

John

Specializes in Rodeo Nursing (Neuro).

I firmly disagree with the notion that one ought to approach a potential employer "cap in hand" and be willing to take whatever one can get. I certainly don't think having a lot to offer should be seen as a handicap, nor do I think many successful managers--in any field--will be intimidated by a well-qualified applicant.

Of course it's useful to approach a job interview with a degree of flexibility. One of our primary functions, as employees, is to make our employers' lives easier. Rigid demands signal someone who is going to need a lot of placating. But confidence and a firm sense of one's goals are strengths, and if there are some employers who can't see that, there are others who can. Our profession happens to be very much in demand, at the moment, so it makes little sense to settle for something unsatisfactory.

The nursing shortage doesn't mean one can waltz in and name one's terms and be assured of being hired. As Chris, and others, have shown, it doesn't even necessarily mean one will get a particular job one deserves. There are assuredly plenty of short-sighted and even incompetent managers and human resources personnel. But, with persistence, one can find a position that will suit one's needs.

To those looking forward to graduation, I heartily recommend beginning the job search even before graduating. I was able to start my final semester with a position waiting for me, and didn't have to "bid" against a whole flock of new graduates. That option may not be available at every institution, but it's well worth looking into.

Specializes in Nursing assistant.

I think it is simply a fact of life, something we have to overcome with our attitude.

just because you have a 4.0 doesn't mean you don't have MORE common sense, compassion, and more than ALL the others either. the people who are the most interested and passionate about nsg. are inevitably the ones who make the best grades, and they usually do equally well in clinicals.

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