Agency Nursing vs Staff Nursing - page 11
Hi All! I am preparing to do a debate in my Nursing 510 course about agency vs staff nursing. It is a formal debate complete with PowerPoint presentation, etc. My team and I will be arguing... Read More
Apr 23, '02[QUOTE]Originally posted by Susy K
This is my personal view:
I do agree with the use of agency or travelers in certain situations: like when we had 3 full-timers out for maternity leave at the same time, etc etc. But I do not think I agree with using agency to regularly staff the floors to compensate for nurses leaving in droves because the pay stinks.
Again, my PERSONAL opinion, (not what I used for the debate) was that agency is being used inappropriately IN THAT rather than dealing with the reason why there are no staff nurses, the hospitals are using agency as a safety net rather than addressing the ROOT PROBLEM.
And this was the stance of my debate:
My opinion that I expressed here on this board has nothing to do with the debate and how it was presented. We didn't present the debate from the stance that agency doesn't get as involved as staff nurses, we presented it from the standpoint that agency shouldn't be used PERIOD.
That is why Brownie I felt you needed reminding that this was a debate, because it was this was the post that you responded to. If I misintrepreted, then I apologize.
But I think alot of people are confused about what the debate stance was, and what MY opinion was - hence the attacks.
I am not defending myself anymore. The debate is finished in my class and it was productive and we are all still friends; as far as I am concerned the debate is done here too. [/QUOTE
I was never confused for even one min as that this thread was started to garner information for your debate....what I "think" confused peoole was that the stance you were given to debate was mirrored in your own personal views.
And I still say that no matter how much the powers that be address the root problem...until nurses decide to stop beating their help (agency) up...by dumping on them....all the enticement in the world won't keep staff from leaving. There will always be agency nurses..as long as "we" continue to "eat each other alive".. my personal opinion
As for the aploogy...I humbly accept...and thank you for being kind enough to offer In some ways I admire you Susy K...as there is a lot of determination in your spirit....but you and I still see things differently, and probably always will...but that is ok with me....as you're entitled to your views and I am entitled to mine..
I'm editing this after going back and reading the post I responded to...and I see why Susy K...you felt you needed to remind me it was a debate. I didn't FORGET it was a debate...just didn't read every word in the paragraph of the post.
But I still believe part of the confusion came from your personal views being interwoven into this thread. So no need for the apology...as your response was justified. Fair is fair!Last edit by Brownms46 on Apr 23, '02
Apr 23, '02Susy, to paraphrase your own words, let me repeat that there is 'a lot of assuming going on here" ----on your part.
I have read this entire thread. I subscribe to MANY threads on this BB and have seen many of your posts. In some threads I have even found myself in agreement with you. Others I have not, and this is fine, we are all entitled to our opinion. BUT if a young nurse tends to come off repeatedly self righteous, sanctimonious, and know-it-allish...and more experienced nurses folks respond a bit negatively to that, should she really be surprised?
You post repeatedly about being misunderstood, and rage on how folks 'don't read all your posts' and this justifies your anger when responders point out perceptions to you....I answered your question as to my opinion of WHY folks might get a tad upset with you sometimes. And as usual, you responded back to ME with anger. This seems to be a recurring theme with all posters who disagree with you.
I will repeat myself here, but you seem (through multiple threads and multiple posts, not just THIS one) determined to stir the pot and then dodge responsibility when others respond with negative feedback.... But you sure did jump on Greytnurse for the same, didn't you?
If you choose not to hear what I am saying, I can't help that.
But you did ask why people 'misunderstand' you, and I offered a possible answer...
And please stop the ridiculous statements about me 'not respecting education' because this issue has nothing to do with education. This has to do with human relations and behavior.
You may be a fine young woman and nurse and it is possible you don't have insight as to how your posts come off to others sometimes. We all have bad days and we understand an occasional 'off' post. When a pattern develops though, its hard to ignore.
Apr 23, '02ask susy's first post requested assistance from both points of views...whether one is an agency nurse or staff nurse. she simply asked for everyone's pro or con opinions & why as she would use the information gain here for her class debate.
with that said, i believe that the con opinions against not having agency nursing became quite passionate because those views came directly from non-agency nurses whom doesn't know what it's like to have worked agency...they can only assume what it must be like based on personal observations experienced at work. yes, some agency nurses do only get one hour orientation prior to a shift, but at the same time, some staff nurses don't or won't see to give them adequate orientation plus they'll give those agency nurses the harder cases...maybe not in a mean spirit...but to give the regular staff nurses some relief...even if it's for one night. but doing this will increase the stress level of that agency nurse as she goes from one place to the next...it seems that it's not right or fair that they be subjected to the harder cases...everywhere they go in order to give the regular staff relief for that night. example, if an agency nurse work five days a week & she bounces between three to four different places that week...is it fair that she/he should work at least 2x harder than the staff nurses because they want a lighter load??? is it fair that they get a half a** orientation & is expected to complete their assigned work in the allotted time period...usually with no further assistance from the staff nurses (sometime on purpose or sometimes not because they too are busy)??? it easy to make opinions regarding a topic, even when research has been done to get both sides, but one still can't understand until they've actually done it for themselves....jmho.originally posted by stargazer ...please go back and read susy's first post. i took it, as i am sure it was meant, as a sincere request for info and opinions from other experienced nurses to help her with a school assignment. a very straightforward request. i've read this entire thread, and how and when and why that simple request for info, and what started out as a reasonable academic discussion, got twisted into something else escapes me.
"academic narrow-mindedness"? i truly don't get why some people on this board act like they're allergic to higher education. why it's always played out as us against them. the majority of folks who go for advanced nursing degrees already have clinical experience. everyone i know with an advanced degree got it while continuing to work full time. there is no them. it's just us.
since when is more knowledge a bad thing? knowledge is power, folks. and i'm starting to see very clearly why nurses don't have any.
Apr 23, '02I agree that the time to end all this is now.
I must say that I too read the whole thread and felt that agency nurses were the issue. If there is an answer to creating better raport between staff nurses and agency nurses- the one who finds it will win the kudos of thousands.
If there is a solution to creating a more enriching, positive environment in which to retain staff- well it has not been done in many years.
Perhaps, this is a cause for the next generation of nurses to research and solve.
Apr 23, '02We use agency nurses a lot, and we always like to see them come in. Our method of establishing rapport was pretty simple. Be nice. Be respectful. Be professional. Everybody's happy.
Apr 24, '02[QUOTE]Originally posted by ChristenLPN
[We use agency nurses alot, and we always like to see them come in. Our method of establishing rapport was pretty simple. Be nice. Be respectful. Be professional. Everybody's happy.
Your facility is to be commended.
Thank you to all facilities such as yours who treat agency nurses in this manner, but the reality is that you are probably in the minority.
If we can recall how we wish to be treated than the treatment of any other, staff or agency, is simple.Last edit by fadingyouth on Apr 24, '02
Apr 24, '02I apologize to all board members who find my above posts offensive. I have decided to filter posters whom I find myself at odds with and refrain from arguing with them. Again, my apologies to all as well as my best wishes! I learn so much reading these BB's and I do not wish to add to any negativity in it's midst. Luv ya'll! :kissLast edit by mattsmom81 on Apr 24, '02
Apr 24, '02The situation is not any better here! In fact we dont receive orientation here at all, the only orientation we get is when we arrive to a ward and are haphazardly shown the essentials only like the Treatment room, the rest we have to figure out and at the blink of an eye ourselves, and on several occasions I havn't even been shown where the equipment I need is kept or even the staff toilet...fortunately I am a very resourceful person and find my feet fast.
I have been employed with my agency for close to a year now and I am thriving on the versatility and freedom of choice but let me tell you we agency nurses have to work that damned lot harder to prove ourselves 'worthy' of that ward, dont deny to me that nurses are not harshly judgemental! Some of the receptions I have met upon first entering a ward can leave alot to be desired at times, enought to make me want to say 'Hey I dont need this, see ya.....but I am very 'thick skinned' and dont take offence too easily and I am confident in the fact that just about every time the shift ends with them smiling and saying 'Please come back'......and THAT is what also makes it worthwhile, after the initial ice breaking through good natured humour and maintaining the teamwork they may so be accustomed too. It is a valueable experience, enhances confidence and manageability and one that I am not relishing to surrendering when I have to commmit fulltime to a particular ward, then I will return to Emergency.
Our hospitals, and ultimately charmless government, are not adressing the dire problem of the chronic nursing shortage and are depleting their pool staff and then in turn the agencies, then they complain about the high cost of agency nurses, ruthlessly cancel shifts and expect their regular staff to carry on with an increasingly heavy and demanding workload.....and they wonder why nurses are leaving in droves, it is pathetic really. ........
Their solution is to progressivley merge wards no matter how imcompatiable the medical/ surgical specialties, continue to have nurses walking out and resigning, the problem is endemic worldwide. and continues to evolve at a fast rate!
Time for bed for me now more another time, my eyes are failing me!! :zzzzz :zzzzz time!!
Apr 24, '02In my limited experience with agency nurses, I find them to be very knowledgeable and hardworking for the most part. If we didn't have them we'd be ALWAYS short staffed instead of 50% of the time.