Agency Nursing vs Staff Nursing

Brownms46 · Apr 23, 2002

Originally posted by Susy K

As do the articles that the pro side used to support THEM. I hear what you are saying, but bottom line, I think agency has it's place, for extended LOAs etc. But using them to staff the floors without addressing the real issues is not productive. In doing the project, we had found alot of real issues that staff nurses have with agency as well (those that I listed originally in like, post #4 or something like that)
Like with the needle stick issue. We atributed that to and used that article to support our claim about the crappy orientations that agency nurses typically get. Heck, when my floor switched angiocath types, WE had more needlesticks!

I guess I didn't think that sharing what I had found in my research WOULDN'T have a place in this thread, which is precisely what is was: Agency vs Staff. I asked for input from BOTH sides; if I hadn't presented the article, someone else might have.

That is all, really.

Now when you put it in that light....(such as the use of different equipment...I can agree with you! But...I believe many hospitals have tried just about every trick in the book to hire on new staff. Just look at some of the unheard of sign on bonues and other perks offered to try and woo new staff!

BUT...it is the treatment of staff that tends NOT to get them to stay around for long! I think there needs to be more training of management personnel and CN also! I feel WORKING conditions and feelings of being mistreated that are the true rationals for why staff don't stay! If you're being well treated somewhere....many times this can make up in part for a poor pay rate. So although the hospitals are pulling out every trick in the book to sway nurses to come on over....the poor treatment they receive after they do come over...is the reason why nurses leave...and then hospitals have no choice but to use agency nurses! Many times agency will put up with some abuse for the higher rate of pay...and the fact that they have control over when ard where they work. Many hospitals have went to self sceduling and for the most part this works...but when you have management that tells you...YOU"RE not important...and they can always replace you.....because you have dingbats from the business world ....or other settings where these kinds of threat work well in many cases. Yes the hospital many times are at fault for why they don't have and can't keep staff.

But also it is the fault of the staff nurses themselves!!! Instead of being active in recruitment...they make sure NO ONE wants to come work with them...by their own attitudes! There are SOME nurses on units out there who have discovered you can get more with a little honey than with a lot of vinegar!!! If you have mistreated a nurse who came to your unit as an agency nurse....YOU MISSED an opportunity to possibly gain a new team member by YOUR OWN actions! The hospital can recruit all they want...but if they're met with cold shoulders.....rudeness, and an unhelpful staff....then that staff can't blame the hospital when they had to continue dealing with agency nurses to fill their staffing needs!!!

Mangement is NOT the only enemy of the staff nurse....many times they are their own worst enemies! Just take the unit I'm on now...they just gained me...but in the process will be losing FIVE others!! WHY??? I"ll give you three guesses... and the first two don't count!

Maula, RN · Apr 23, 2002

Originally posted by Susy K
I wasn't allowed to "rethink" my ideas as the assignment was to argue against agency nurse use. In doing so, have subsequently formed an opinion. Sorry if it doesn't jive with yours.

You know it's hard for you to see the point here because you are not a nurse. It's takes a nurse's point of view not a student's. Your view is jaded by the idealisms of school and the security of your instructors. Come back to this a year after you've worked in the field and tell us whether or not your opinion of agency nurses have changed

And nurses it makes no sense at all to try to force her to see our views. We are unique in that we have experienced and she has judged without experiencing. Common mistake many students make. We were all there once. :eek:

Q. · Apr 23, 2002

Originally posted by Maula, RN

You know it's hard for you to see the point here because you are not a nurse. It's takes a nurse's point of view not a student's. Your view is jaded by the idealisms of school and the security of your instructors. Come back to this a year after you've worked in the field and tell us whether or not your opinion of agency nurses have changed

And nurses it makes no sense at all to try to force her to see our views. We are unique in that we have experienced and she has judged without experiencing. Common mistake many students make. We were all there once.

How's that saying go? Open mouth, insert foot? :chuckle

Maula honey, I am a nurse. I have worked on a very understaffed floor for 4 years and am currently working in a clinic doing Internal Medicine triage on TOP OF THAT. I am a charge nurse on my floor and have made many decisions regarding calling agency or not to help us staff. Knowing that, I still feel the same. Agency is being used as a band-aid.

I am a student yes, but a graduate student, thank you. :roll

If you read my first post, you would see that this debate was for my Nursing 510 course. I do not know of any undergrad classes that reach the 500 level. But even if you didn't know that, if you read the entire thread, you would have seen my discussion to Brownie about how I personally assign patients to the staff, so on and so forth.

Assuming and speaking before thinking. Common mistake alot of people make. :rolleyes:

**SKM-NURSIEPOOH, BSN, RN** · Apr 23, 2002

...play nice; obviously, maula, rn is relatively new here...we should welcome her better than that. :rolleyes: she made a faux pas...give her some slack...heehee. :roll :blushkiss :cool:

Q. · Apr 23, 2002

Faux pas. I guess so.

Still....it was quite funny.

Brownms46 · Apr 23, 2002

Dang even I have to agree it was pretty funny...sorry Maula, RN...but it was:kiss:

**SKM-NURSIEPOOH, BSN, RN** · Apr 23, 2002

how is your class going...have you finished it yet...or is it a full semester course??? do you have any other assignments for it??? what are some of your other courses that you're taking-up now or is this your only class for??? :confused:

i'm sure you guys did an excellent job at debating...as you're excellent at debating here!!! :chuckle

i so enjoy bringing the best out of you...in a debate that is...lol.:blushkiss

sometimes we must be passionate about our convections.

Q. · Apr 23, 2002

Actually Moe thanks for asking.

Class seems to be okay. I have 2 classes this semester, the one I did the debate for (called Seminar in Emergent Heath Care) and the other course is Educational Psychology in a nutshell, called Foundations of Education in Nursing. I am actually, as we speak, writing a paper for the Fundies course due Thursday. I had to observe a class and show how the instructor utilized a theory of learning and techniques that are proven by the literature. I sat in one of my co-workers Asthma classes (we are both educators for this particular program in our clinic) and got the goods and am now making the translation to a paper (while surfing AllNurses of course!)

The class I did the debate in, we all actually had to give a 2 hour lecture a couple weeks ago! My lecture was on Medical Education and the history, how it relates to nursing. After the debate, this week another student is giving a lecture, and then we have an articles review paper, where we find articles on a particular topic of interest and review the methodology and findings, etc. We have to have a minimum of 20 articles. So far I have ONE. Classes are done in about 3 weeks. These next 3 weeks are quite busy.

Then this summer I am taking an on-line stats course.

I do enjoy school and it seems to be going ok. I've learned quite a bit but it is still hard to get into the "mode." I used to be able to whip out a paper in about a couple hours but now it takes me a bit to get on a roll, so to speak.

This internet thing can be frustrating. Sometimes while driving to work (I have a 40 minute drive) I sit and think of these threads and how so much I wish we were in person because I feel like the misunderstandings would be cut in HALF! But I am not one to give up easily - as you know.

fadingyouth · Apr 23, 2002

reply reply let me see if i can understand suzyk.

we have thus far learned who and what she is, what a debate is,and how functional she is. and...........all this time i thought she was a student (beginning the program)

how much better this world would be if we were all sooooooooooooo smart.

you cannot make a blanket statement about agency nurses no more than one can make a blanket statement about staff nurses.

not all receive "crappy" orientations and flounder within the halls of a hospital that they are assigned to. some have certifications and achievements that provide them with an increased rating.

some, as brownms46 said, are invited back time and again and often called to come in when they do not appear on schedule.

it is many an agency nurse who gets to work overtime when others are not and some, like myself, will be invited to stay while a staff member goes home.

if hospitals paid adequately and delivered on their never ending promises then available staff might never be an issue, but i personally can not exist on salaries that are 1/2 of what i make now without a salary cap.

someday, not this century, those decision making persons widening their royal throne will suddenly become enlightened. :rolleyes:

**SKM-NURSIEPOOH, BSN, RN** · Apr 23, 2002

..good luck with those review articles...you say you only have one & that 2o is required...yikes. :eek:

i know what you mean about used to being able to bang-out a paper in a few hours...but now, at this level, it won't be so easy...espeically manipulating data from research & experiments. :rolleyes:

and am now making the translation to a paper (while surfing allnurses of course!) good lord woman!!!

good luck with your on-line stats course!!! i was the type that needed constant interaction with both stats i & ii instructors...heehee...lol. :roll don't know if i could've handled an on-line course though. :chuckle

Maula, RN · Apr 23, 2002

Originally posted by Susy K

How's that saying go? Open mouth, insert foot? :chuckle

Assuming and speaking before thinking. Common mistake alot of people make.

Point well taken.

Q. · Apr 23, 2002

Originally posted by fadingyouth
[sooooooooooooo smart.
You cannot make a blanket statement about agency nurses no more than one can make a blanket statement about staff nurses.
Not all receive "crappy" orientations and flounder within the halls of a hospital that they are assigned to.

I believe I said in a general sense, certainly not as a hard and fast rule, that agency receive crappy orientations. Time and again we've had agency show up only 1 hour before the scheduled shift and was barely shown the OR.

At any rate, if we appeared as wishy-washy as you want me to be here, as in "well SOME but not ALL agency this," and "SOME agency that" and "well not always but..." we really wouldn't have been effective in our debate, would we?

Again, my PERSONAL opinion, (not what I used for the debate) was that agency is being used inappropriately IN THAT rather than dealing with the reason why there are no staff nurses, the hospitals are using agency as a safety net rather than addressing the ROOT PROBLEM.