"Men should be EMT's or Doctors!"

[Antikigirl]

So our floor had this little old lady who was basically your general pain in the keester. Declined meds, treatments, tests...and was needy as all get go but no one could satisfy her. Very bold woman who likes things her way...and no other..family was the same and catered to her every whim...which didn't help us out at all! It was like she was on respite not being treated for a medical probelm!

We have this wonderful male nurse who is kind and very realistic when it comes to women having a probelm with male nurses during certain things (like bathing, cath, tolieting, etc.) and we always help him out in those cases. Well...I guess this woman read him the riot act saying that males should NEVER be nurses, they should get a set of testies and be a EMT or Doctor! Then she excused him from the room saying to never even step towards the door...this was just seconds after he introduced himself!!!!

I was furious!!!!! Here is this lady who actually is about 90 and was an editor for a major newspaper and she is being sexist??? Okay I think when she was trying for editor she had her share of sexism in her day!!! I was just so peved!

I took over care for her because she liked me quite a bit...and I had a little talk with her. I told her that I knew her son was an EMT, and my hubby is a paramedic. That I know that many EMT's and paramedics would like to switch to RN because of the pay, and actually getting to know a patient for more than 5-15 minutes in a screaming ambulance. Because of HIPAA they are not 'in the know' about their patients once they transfer care...so they stablize some of the worse things and never get to hear an outcome! So nursing can be quite nice because you can see what happens beyond the ER doors! I also reminded her and had her share stories of how it was like being a female editor....after that is sunk in to her what she had done, and she felt very sorry..but remained bull headed about not letting him in.

I think I did well...I knew this lady wouldn't respond to anything to put her defenses up, so I had to be patient and make her think of the reasons why she said what she did, and HERSELF come to the conclusion with a little proding from me that it was very insensitive and wrong.

I then talked to the nurse and we had a good laugh and he was fine, and then we both went to the charge nurse and wrote an incident report for verbal abuse and sexism towards the nurse. I felt that was right to do since you shouldn't ever treat a professional that only wants to help you (even if you are a pain in the keester big time) get well!

Basically I really made him see things in the right perspective by just saying "it really doesn't matter with her or some people what sex or color you are...they just want to make you miserable for some reason...just the lazy ones with no creativity choose sex or color because it is easier than actually getting to know a person! Plus hon...I think if she said anything positive or even smiled her head would cave in from the pressure! LOL!!!!".

Don't let the turkeys get ya down folks...

[sheilagh]

I look at things a little differently

At 90 years old, she should be allowed to feel what ever way she wants to feel. By God she has earned that right.She has served her time, paid her dues,and who knows what factors she faced while achieving her 90 years.

This world is big enough for all types, even me

I actually disagree because you open yourself up to people taking things too far, ex: recently at my sister hospital a woman absolutely refused to let the nurse assigned to her help her and demanded the supervisor change to another nurse.What was wrong with the nurse? well he was a male, but that wasn't the problem, it was because he was black ! And to make an outrageous situation even worse, the supervisor acquiesed and another white nurse was assigned. This was a 32 yoa accountant about to give birth and all she was worried about was skin color.

The male nurse in question filed a complaint with administration, and a new (thought one already existed) policy of discrimination came down from above, with apologies to the black male nurse.

[nursemike, ASN, RN]

Much as I hate to say it, I don't think we can hang this on the Republicans. In fact, one is still pretty much free to tell someone to "grow some testes" or call someone wimpy, with very little in the way of legal impediment. On the other hand, the right to cry foul over such remarks is also protected.

One conservative principle I do hold is that one ought to be accountable for one's actions, in word or deed. In my culture (white trash hillbilly redneck) if you tell a man to grow some testes and he punches you in the nose, you don't have a whole lot to cry about. There may be more civilized responses, but this seems fair enough, to me. I watch my mouth, and I don't get punched.

On the other hand, there are people, such as 90 yr old ladies, who enjoy immunity from punches in the nose. To use that immunity as a license to say things that merit a punch in the nose, knowing one won't suffer the consequences, is craven.

On a purely secular level, I suppose one does have every right to harbor such thoughts and beliefs. Whether one is accountable to a higher authority is debatable--I tend to believe one is, but also to hope that Court is a lenient one, since I have any number of foibles of my own to repent.

Again, I think the key to this whole incident is that Triage cared enough to support her co-worker. The patient was not made to "pay" for her behavior, but surely ought not to have expected to be praised for it, either.

[teeituptom, BSN, RN]

Much as I hate to say it, I don't think we can hang this on the Republicans. In fact, one is still pretty much free to tell someone to "grow some testes" or call someone wimpy, with very little in the way of legal impediment. On the other hand, the right to cry foul over such remarks is also protected.

One conservative principle I do hold is that one ought to be accountable for one's actions, in word or deed. In my culture (white trash hillbilly redneck) if you tell a man to grow some testes and he punches you in the nose, you don't have a whole lot to cry about. There may be more civilized responses, but this seems fair enough, to me. I watch my mouth, and I don't get punched.

On the other hand, there are people, such as 90 yr old ladies, who enjoy immunity from punches in the nose. To use that immunity as a license to say things that merit a punch in the nose, knowing one won't suffer the consequences, is craven.

On a purely secular level, I suppose one does have every right to harbor such thoughts and beliefs. Whether one is accountable to a higher authority is debatable--I tend to believe one is, but also to hope that Court is a lenient one, since I have any number of foibles of my own to repent.

Again, I think the key to this whole incident is that Triage cared enough to support her co-worker. The patient was not made to "pay" for her behavior, but surely ought not to have expected to be praised for it, either.

How should she be made to pay for her behaviour.

Life imprisonment

Take away her desert at dinner

refuse to care for her

Hooray for the Democrats, they now have the RULE

[buddiage]

This just goes to prove that nowadays. There is absolutely nothing that anyone can say, that somewhere, somehow, someway who will and can find something wrong with whatever you say.

THANK GOD thinking is still safe

Hooray the Democrats kicked Republican _____!!!!!!!!

This whole "battle of the parties" has no winners. We all lose because they play games and prove loyalty to their "parties," not to us citizens who they are supposed to serve. Our founding fathers would be shaking thier heads at this political mess.

People like us end up funding this stupidity out of our pockets. :-(

[nursemike, ASN, RN]

How should she be made to pay for her behaviour.

Life imprisonment

Take away her desert at dinner

refuse to care for her

Hooray for the Democrats, they now have the RULE

I didn't mean to suggest that she should be made to pay for her behaviour. I do think it's entirely appropriate to tell her that her behaviour is inappropriate, because it was. Decent people don't say and act as she did, and age has nothing to do with it. It's true, of course, that we nurses undertake an obligation to treat every patient with respect, and Triage did that, but we are certainly not under any obligation to humbly submit to any sort of abuse some patient may wish to heap upon us. I don't believe anyone can ever earn the "right" to behave contemptibly, and if they insist on doing so, they ought to expect to be looked upon with contempt.

[leslie :-D]

i agree with tom 100%.

yes, i do think just by virtue of being 90 yo, there 'should' be a level of reverie and honor.

our elderly are by far the least respected segment of society.

old age has no place in the u.s.

they live like paupers.

they're literally pushed aside and are a devalued bunch, once they pass the torch to the younger generations.

to add insult, many have lost their function, their homes, their autonomy.

i see nothing wrong with being more tolerant of the elderly, if one cannot just respect them.

sure there are times i've told different elderly pts "that is inappropriate", limit-setting, etc.

but for the most part, they've told me to stick it up my orifice. :balloons:

i am thinking of a hospice pt i had, who absolutely refused to be treated by male nurses, blacks, hispanics, jews and catholics!!!

we just let her squawk but did not reassign staff.

oh, she protested loudly, calling many every racial slur available.

we all worked together and when she became vulgar, she would be told "enough! you are not permitted to use that language".

with everyone on the same page, she quieted down but let her disdain be known in other ways-yet still, her behavior was much more acceptable.

she squawked until she died.

twas the nature of this 96 yo, 70 lb, rambunctious, little lady.

but in spite of having such sass and blatant prejudice, she was treated with the highest of respect and honor.

and that's the way i feel about our elderly.

there should be some sense of entitlement.

leslie

[SharonH, RN]

But I am torn. I actually think there is something to what Tom says. The very elderly or those who are set in their ways are hard, if not impossible to "convert" to the current or "correct" way of thinking. I have let MANY such a remark roll off my back, knowing I did not have enough time in the world to change such minds and should not worry too much about it. I have been picking my battles really carefully since I graduated nursing school 9 years ago.

Deb, I love ya but I have to disagree with you and Tom and Leslie and some others (okay I didn't read the entire thread).

Old people are amazingly adaptable. I've seen them use cellphones and those new-fangled microwave ovens and even computers. They learn all manner of things but they just can't get it through their heads that racism and sexism is wrong? uh-uh I'm not buying it. Besides, it was wrong THEN too, it's not like it was okay back then either.

People learn what they want to. She chooses not to get the lesson, well that's her prerogative as Tom says but that doesn't mean that she gets a pass for it because she's an old cantankerous PIA.

[SharonH, RN]

Brava to you Triage!

[teeituptom, BSN, RN]

Just remember if your lucky enough to get that old and blue

and some young nurse with your current attitude

completely gets to you

remember its your turn to get rude

[leslie :-D]

uh-uh I'm not buying it. Besides, it was wrong THEN too, it's not like it was okay back then either.

wasn't the 'n'-word randomly used, 50+ yrs ago?

only now do we realize how very wrong it was.

and all the way up to the 1950s/60s, society had definitive roles for men and women.

so for an old lady to think that it's wrong for a man to be a nurse, or to think he should be something more macho, is certainly not unusual thinking.

i just happen to think that we overall, live in a highly intolerant society.

but when someone is truly old, there's little they have left before they leave this earth.

there are ways to let them be cranky w/o having to tolerate their bigotry.

in the absence of dementia or any other pathological process, most truly will, respond to firm limit-setting.

leslie

[SharonH, RN]

wasn't the 'n'-word randomly used, 50+ yrs ago?

only now do we realize how very wrong it was.

leslie

Well I wasn't around 50+ years ago, but it is my understanding that it was spoken in hatred back then too. It was used to degrade people, NOT as a pet name. Therefore it is not "only now" that they realize how very wrong it was, they knew it even then.

Personally, of all patient populations I enjoy working with the elderly the most. I don't really share your characterization that most of them have "little left". As you get older priorities shift and circumstances change, but many of them roll with the punches and keep the same oomph they had in their youth. So in one sense you're right, you can let them be cranky but by all means set limits. No need to chalk bad behavior up to age.

[SmilingBluEyes]

hmmmm, well my take is, we have the choice *not* to be offended........

maybe we should remember that-------life is so short. I try not to waste time looking for offense in everything people say.