Forced ultrasounds

[nurse2033]

Has anyone been following this? Virginia just passed a law that requires any woman who wishes an abortion must have an ultrasound (and pay for it) prior to the abortion. Since most of these are done prior to 12 weeks that means the ultrasound will most likely be lady partsl. Does any one else have a problem with this? I know that the abortion would also be lady partsl but this is an unnecessary procedure. What is the medical purpose here? Obviously none. Here's a few links covering the story. I was disappointed I couldn't find any public comments from nursing organizations.

http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?121+sum+SB484

http://www.slate.com/articles/double_x/doublex/2012/02/virginia_ultrasound_law_women_who_want_an_abortion_will_be_forcibly_penetrated_for_no_medical_reason.html

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/virginia-gops-abortion-bill-reeks-of-hypocrisy/2012/02/07/gIQAYiU1zQ_story.html

[mazy]

I think it's bullying, guilt provoking and terrorizing someone into decision they don't want but intimidating them in a frightening and vulnerable time. Making this decision isn't easy for a majority of women, but forcing them to "listen to the babies heartbeat" and have a probe shoved up their "private parts" is invasive and threatening. It is forcing one person's beliefs upon someone else. With all the shouting and posturing about "rising healthcare costs" to force any medical treatment on ANYONE is a violation of one's rights. ANYTIME Government begins to be able to dictate someones personal and private decisions is a slippery slope down a dangerous and scary path. I would rather have someone choose abortion than give birth and abuse their child.

It angers:madface: me and scares me at the same time.

I wholeheartedly agree with this. The word "force" should never be allowed into the lexicon when talking about medical care and procedures.

As nurses we are told from day one that we are obligated to respect the rights of our patients to refuse or accept care, and to respect their beliefs when it comes to providing that care.

It is one of the most important and challenging aspects of this profession -- the separation of what we believe is right as individuals from the real issue of what is right for the patient.

Whether an ultrasound is medically necessary is not the issue. The issue is that it is not right to use a medical procedure to force someone into making a decision about the type of care they will receive when it goes against what they want.

There is a lot to be said on the subject and many can say it a lot more eloquently than I can. Because the idea of forcing a woman to do anything -- especially when it is fallible, imperfect politicians, most of them men, with all sorts of personal, financial, and political failings, who are pushing these laws -- provokes such an emotional reaction that I can barely be rational about it.

[morte, LPN, LVN]

Why the need for sedation? local numbing and on with the procedure.....

It was unclear to me from the articles (which i admittedly just skimmed) - are they making the woman go to a separate ultrasound and then forcing a waiting period before she can proceed with the abortion?

Yes, they are pushing for legislation which would require a separate/special ultrasound to be given by the abortion provider. They already perform an ultrasound directly before the procedure, but they want an u/s which gives a "play by play", so to speak.

My abortion was at 7w5d. It was aspiration only, performed under versed and fentanyl sedation, along with a paracervical block. Curretage was not used, and the physician informed me that she does not routinely use it under 12 weeks gestation. My procedure took 3 minutes.

Under 12 weeks it is incredibly simple procedure.

[VioletKaliLPN, LPN]

Sedation is included with the procedure. It is actually commonplace 'today' for twilight sedation with narcotics, or asleep sedation, to be used for the comfort of the woman.

An abortion is not a painless procedure, it is quite uncomfortable for most women who undergo the procedure. A paracervical local anesthetic block does nothing for the uterine contraction pain. Why should it have to be painful when short acting drugs can be used to increase comfort both during and after the abortion. We offer pain control during many short procedures.

[VioletKaliLPN, LPN]

An abortion procedure is essentially the same procedure used to evacuate early miscarriages that fail to pass on their own, vacuum aspiration.(early on, curretage is not always routine, but based on findings). These women are offered sedation for the procedure, to ensure they are as comfortable as possible. A woman who chooses an elective D/C should be offered no less.

Of course..The abortion opposition is likely unconcerned by a woman's comfort during an abortion procedure.

[morte, LPN, LVN]

But, i would think it adds considerable to the cost.

Sedation is included with the procedure. It is actually commonplace 'today' for twilight sedation with narcotics, or asleep sedation, to be used for the comfort of the woman.

An abortion is not a painless procedure, it is quite uncomfortable for most women who undergo the procedure. A paracervical local anesthetic block does nothing for the uterine contraction pain. Why should it have to be painful when short acting drugs can be used to increase comfort both during and after the abortion. We offer pain control during many short procedures.

[VioletKaliLPN, LPN]

No, not really significant cost. Some providers do charge extra, especially for asleep sedation, but sedation with versed and fentanyl is fairly inexpensive.

I paid 305$ for my abortion procedure, it was 9 years ago. Today, a procedure with the same meds is around 325-500$ in my area. Different states with different COL do affect prices. In Virginia today you can have a procedure asleep for 450$. CRNA's are utilized.

[nurse2033, MSN, RN]

Thanks for all the comments. I guess what bothers me the most is that the procedures are being legislated not for medical reasons. I have no problem if the standard of medical care is X,Y, and Z. But I think that should be up to physicians not legislators. And just to add, the informed consent part of the law (which would allow a woman to opt out) was defeated.

[33762FL]

The medical reason for an ultrasound before an abortion is to determine gestational age. However, an abdominal ultrasound is perfectly adequate to determine gestation age, a trans-lady partsl is not necessary. Also, doctors should decide how to practice, not the government. The purpose of this bill is red-meat for the far right.

[dishes, BSN, RN]

Thanks for all the comments. I guess what bothers me the most is that the procedures are being legislated not for medical reasons. I have no problem if the standard of medical care is X,Y, and Z. But I think that should be up to physicians not legislators. And just to add, the informed consent part of the law (which would allow a woman to opt out) was defeated.

I agree medical care should be up to the physicians not the government and the legislation is being pushed by antiabortion lobbyists. However, I am confused, when you say that the informed consent part has been defeated, where on the document do you see this? Also, where on the document does it say that a trans-lady partsl ultrasound is to be done?

[33762FL]

Here's a link:

http://www.canada.com/news/abortion+akin+rape/6187320/story.html

The ultrasound must be by lady partsl probe, not a pelvic ultrasound, as per the law. The lady partsl probe ultrasound would be mandatory before an abortion - meaning that if the patient doesn't consent to the lady partsl probe, they can't get an abortion in Virginia.

[MissPiggy]

And then to expect these women to pay for the ultrasound as well - if they want it done so badly, the least they can do is to pay for it themselves!

[nicurn001]

here was I thinking conservatives didn't like government intrusion into our lives , but I guess that only means when the government is trying to limit a right they hold dear .Silly me .