For those a BSN or MSN acquired online, did you face discrimination when job hunting

rntim49 · Dec 26, 2010

Both Kaplan and Phoenix University have had multiple class action lawsuits filed against and this should raise red flags for employers as well as potential students.

Care to be a little more specific on the above statements? I believe there are alot of Kaplan and University of phoenix grads here that would like to hear all about your accredited accusations. :uhoh3:

katiehydrangea · Dec 26, 2010

I looked into Western Governers and was told that it is a competancy based program and although they are accredited, they do not award grades. Its pass/fail so if you plan on getting an advanced degree or specialize you may need to check with the advanced or some advanced programs to see if you would need grades to get in. That is what I would be most concerned about. There were a few other things about that program that were a bit unconvential but I did not get a chance to attend as they never did get the program in Utah up and going. By the way, I think what you are asking is more aimed to the programs like WGU and UOP correct?

lifelearningrn, BSN, RN · Dec 26, 2010

how would they know if it was online or traditional? You only tell them your degree and the institution... can't see how it's relevant. If it's accredited, that's the only thing that matters.

If your degree comes from UoP, Devry, WGU or any number of other schools known to offer mostly or all online degrees, the employer knows. If it's a school that hosts both types of programs (public, state schools) the employer will not know as the degrees are indistinguishable.

Right now, the jury truly is out on how online degrees are going to be accepted in the future. It is still the case that lot of them will go at the end of the stack, if not in the shredder.. I'm not saying ALL employers do that, but many do.

Is it discrimination?? I don't think so. They are just still so new that there isn't enough research out there to determine if all online degrees educate as well as the classroom. Employers (especially old school) are still skeptical. Is it right or wrong? I don't know, but if I'm going to fork over a lot of money for a degree, I want to to be something that is respected.

As for online classes being as difficult and rigorous as any in person class.. that hasn't completely been my experience. I've had a couple classes I took online that were great, I got a lot out of them.. but the rest (which is quite a few) I can honestly say I got absolutely nothing from them. Write a paper, take a few tests, no interaction, no instruction, nothing. In fact, three classes I've taken online I have finished in the span of a weekend to a week. Can one really consider that equal to a full 16 week semester? I realize mileage may vary, but I have heard this from others so I don't think it is that uncommon. Another problem with online learning... People CHEAT. Easily. Anyone can do the work on an online class. As of now they have no way of knowing who is actually taking the class.

Some food for thought- one can not, in any state, earn a GED online. However, they give out full on BA, Master's and PhD degrees online. It kind of makes you think.. at least me anyway.

I'm not saying things aren't going to change in the future or that all online degree holders won't get jobs. But a lot of HRs have 'black listed' where they won't even consider an application from (not necessarily nursing) some schools, even if they are fully regionally accredited. (UoP especially)

hiddencatRN, BSN, RN · Dec 26, 2010

Care to be a little more specific on the above statements? I believe there are alot of Kaplan and University of phoenix grads here that would like to hear all about your accredited accusations.

If you google "Kaplan University Lawsuit" or "University of Phoenix Lawsuit" a ton of hits pop up. I know google isn't an "accrediting" body, but here are two links I found:

Kaplan, Inc. - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

University of Phoenix - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

rntim49 · Dec 26, 2010

come on! wikipedia? We were taught to avoid those sites like the plague back in brick and mortar and online college.

They are filled with propaganda and can be edited by anyone. not peer reviewed or scholarly either:lol2:

Bruce_Wayne, ASN, RN · Dec 26, 2010

I appreciate all the great input. One of the reasons I asked specifically about WGU is because my employer HCA has some kind of alliance with them.

Online College of Health | HCA First Partner | WGU News Online
An important partnership has been created between WGU and Hospital Corporation of America (HCA), one of the nation's leading providers of healthcare services, composed of 182 hospitals and 94 outpatient surgery centers in 22 states, England and Switzerland. HCA has made a significant financial contribution to WGU and will be actively involved in developing the competencies for the degree programs.

So on top of tuition reimbursement I'd also get a discount if I decided to go with WGU.

I think however I may favor the idea of going to a brick and mortar school's program. Every program from the brick and mortar places I've looked into save one has been either 90% to 100% online anyway.

AsatruRN · Dec 26, 2010

I am glad someone asked this. I am in the market for my BSN or MSN and I am looking for schools. U of Phoenix came to our clinic and did an inservice. The guy made a compelling argument that in Texas ALL clinicals that are required are done when we get an RN so everything would be didactic from here on out.

However I can't shake my own discrimination. I guess I'm a bit old fashioned. When I'm on the internets I pay like 25% of my attention to facebook, allnurses, email, etc and I'm constantly clicking from tab to tab. Plus this guy who I work with went to online nursing school and he's terrible about infection control. He drew up saline from one patient's IV lines and was about to give it to another patient who sat next to her. (I work in a dialysis clinic and there's 20 patients sitting next to one another on the treatment floor) I was like...whoa wrong machine...and he really didn't know. He had no clue what he was doing and I had to in depth explain why that was wrong! Capillary action, etc etc, there could be viruses in the saline even though there's no blood etc. That is something you get in clinicals from the floor nurses and your instructors.

If the online school is accredited and their after graduation hire rate is commendable then that is a completely different story. I would look at the resume of the person, and of course their accomplishments as well as what school they got their degree from. I wouldn't NOT hire them but I would hire someone from a brick and mortar school FIRST if accomplishments and resume were comparable.

hiddencatRN, BSN, RN · Dec 26, 2010

come on! wikipedia? We were taught to avoid those sites like the plague back in brick and mortar and online college.
They are filled with propaganda and can be edited by anyone. not peer reviewed or scholarly either:lol2:

Ah, we were taught not to use them as sources but that they were good for looking for source material in starting a search. If you go to the references section, you can trace the info to the original source.

Or you could use google:

Let me google that for you

And fwiw, news media isn't peer reviewed nor scholarly but that doesn't mean things that appear in the news are not reputable.

Woodenpug, BSN · Dec 26, 2010

Ah, we were taught not to use them as sources but that they were good for looking for source material in starting a search. If you go to the references section, you can trace the info to the original source.
Or you could use google:
Let me google that for you
And fwiw, news media isn't peer reviewed nor scholarly but that doesn't mean things that appear in the news are not reputable.

Reputable, in the sense that people pay attention. But, would you seriously base patient care on something you read in the news media? (As the only source.)

dishes, BSN, RN · Dec 26, 2010

News articles can be a starting point to help focus a literature search. In the case of the Kaplan and University of Pheonix lawsuits after reading the news and wikipedia reports, the next place I would look look is the U.S. Department of Education's website. After reading the Testimony of the National Association of College Admission Counselling (NACAC) Higher Education Act Statuary Ban on Incentive Compensation for Admission and Financial Aid Officers, presented June 22, 2009, U.S. Department of Public Hearing, Philidelphia, PA, I would then check my library for the articles referenced in the hearing document which are in the journals Chronicle of Higher Education March 13, 2008 and Inside Higher Ed, Jan 17, 2008.

http://www2.ed.gov/policy/highered/reg/hearulemaking/2009/comments09/c161.pdf

dishes

MassED, BSN, RN · Dec 26, 2010

if your degree comes from uop, devry, wgu or any number of other schools known to offer mostly or all online degrees, the employer knows. if it's a school that hosts both types of programs (public, state schools) the employer will not know as the degrees are indistinguishable.
right now, the jury truly is out on how online degrees are going to be accepted in the future. it is still the case that lot of them will go at the end of the stack, if not in the shredder.. i'm not saying all employers do that, but many do.
is it discrimination?? i don't think so. they are just still so new that there isn't enough research out there to determine if all online degrees educate as well as the classroom. employers (especially old school) are still skeptical. is it right or wrong? i don't know, but if i'm going to fork over a lot of money for a degree, i want to to be something that is respected.
as for online classes being as difficult and rigorous as any in person class.. that hasn't completely been my experience.
bsn programs vary widely - my experience was better than my traditional in class adn program. there was much in the way of requirement as far as required interaction, required meaningful responses, as well as detailed and quite lengthy testing and papers. of course, like all nurses are not the same, nursing programs are not the same.
i've had a couple classes i took online that were great, i got a lot out of them.. but the rest (which is quite a few) i can honestly say i got absolutely nothing from them. write a paper, take a few tests, no interaction, no instruction, nothing. in fact, three classes i've taken online i have finished in the span of a weekend to a week. can one really consider that equal to a full 16 week semester? i realize mileage may vary, but i have heard this from others so i don't think it is that uncommon. another problem with online learning... people cheat. easily. anyone can do the work on an online class.
well that is ridiculous. if i could've found someone to take my statistics proctored exam (at home, but password protected, using my ssn, etc.) then don't you think i would have - but more importantly, who the heck is going to do that for me? pay someone? i suppose, but it would be quite difficult. the end of the program required a proctored test at a sylvan, which required providing proof of identification, just like taking the nclex. so that theory goes out the window of just anyone can be in the class. again, this goes back to what school you are attending. not all are equal.
as of now they have no way of knowing who is actually taking the class.
some food for thought- one can not, in any state, earn a ged online. however, they give out full on ba, master's and phd degrees online.
any higher level education that is all online would give my pause, personally. mine required clinical time within my community, organized by myself, but had to be verified by my program director. i would expect this of msn and most certainly phd. this type of education provides more freedom for those that have families and work full-time. when you're available at 0100 to take a test, how would a traditional class be better? for what it's worth, my children's schools are beginning to offer courses online. i hope that their textbooks will also go all online, so their assigned laptops could free up the paper consumption. if online higher level education gives you pause, what about those children that home school? i must admit i always thought there was something a bit odd with these groups of people, mainly their lack of social skill as compared to public or private school education, but home schoolers, as we now know, can succeed and many do exceedingly well.
it kind of makes you think.. at least me anyway.
i'm not saying things aren't going to change in the future or that all online degree holders won't get jobs. but a lot of hrs have 'black listed' where they won't even consider an application from (not necessarily nursing) some schools, even if they are fully regionally accredited. (uop especially)

again, the choice of school is key. i chose a school that had a traditional option for bsn but also offered an online program that was identical to the traditional program. this school is well known. i wouldn't have chosen a solely online school, only because i believe the institutions that have traditional have that knowledge to make the online programs succeed.

MassED, BSN, RN · Dec 26, 2010

"Plus this guy who I work with went to online nursing school and he's terrible about infection control. He drew up saline from one patient's IV lines and was about to give it to another patient who sat next to her."

This points to his initial (lack of) nursing education as to how he approaches infection control. Basic nursing right there gone awry. This has nothing to do with online nursing education.