Finding preceptors

pielęgniarka, RN · Aug 29, 2008

I would call up some of the hospitals in your area and ask to be transferred to a nurse preceptor. Or you could even send out an email I suppose. I think for the most part, nurses that are preceptors willingly go into the position to do just that-- and aren't going to be disgruntled. Or you could ask your nursing advisor at school.

Wish I had 1st hand experience to share with you on that.

Sara

I'm doing SUNY Delhi's RN-BSN program accelerated. This Fall I'm taking the classes that don't require a preceptor, but I'll need one for four classes total in future semesters.
Anyone else in or graduate from online programs that require clinical? How do/did you go about finding a preceptor? I don't know if SUNY Delhi's program is usual or not, but there seems like a lot of stuff a preceptor is required to be in charge of for no pay. For example, the preceptor is to document how the student is meeting goals established with the preceptor and the course (like "student will critically examine literature related to management structure").
Seems like a lot to me, and I'm thinking "Who would want to do this??" But I've promised myself that if I find someone I'll pay it forward and not refuse to precept!

llg, PhD, RN · Aug 29, 2008

There are a lot of schools who expect students to find their own preceptors -- which is the equivalent of asking them to provice their own faculty. I think it is a disgraceful practice and wish that the nursing profession would put a stop to the growing practice. The schools charge the students money and then expect the student to find someone to provide the actual instruction for free. That's not right.

If a school wants to include clinical preceptorships as part of their curriculum, they should have contracts with facilities to provide those clinical experiences. The relationships, legal liabilities, and money issues should be spelled out nice and neat so that everybody can be clear on them.

I think it is disgraceful that a school would take a student's money and then say, "We don't provide the actual instruction. It's your job to find someone to teach you -- someone who is willing to do it for free."

CrescentLuna · Aug 29, 2008

sfrek1214 - I don't think preceptors are a job position in the hospital, it is supposed to be an RN with two years experience who will guide and work on several goals with you independently of their job (as they wouldn't be able to work in all the areas you need clinical experience in).

llg - yeah, I'm beginning to see that! Unfortunately, the alternative seems to be online/distance programs that are not NLNAC accredited, as those require clinical time. CCNE, from my research, doesn't require clinical time so programs like UoP don't need to bother with it. But, on the other hand, they're lots of more expensive and tack on so many electives! Bleh. I realize that if the school is in Ohio but you're in Connecticut, they're probably not going to have contacts there, but I wish they'd make the preceptor role smaller in scope so it wasn't such a huge undertaking for someone to do for free.

(Though I fully intend personally to pay in coffee and donuts or whatever)

BBFRN, BSN, PhD · Aug 29, 2008

There are a lot of schools who expect students to find their own preceptors -- which is the equivalent of asking them to provice their own faculty. I think it is a disgraceful practice and wish that the nursing profession would put a stop to the growing practice. The schools charge the students money and then expect the student to find someone to provide the actual instruction for free. That's not right.
If a school wants to include clinical preceptorships as part of their curriculum, they should have contracts with facilities to provide those clinical experiences. The relationships, legal liabilities, and money issues should be spelled out nice and neat so that everybody can be clear on them.
I think it is disgraceful that a school would take a student's money and then say, "We don't provide the actual instruction. It's your job to find someone to teach you -- someone who is willing to do it for free."

Thank you! ITA. I had problem with this practice in my undergrad Community Health Practicum. We were expected to find a mentor during the Holidays, everyone already had students, and the list they gave us was poor at best. It was a nightmare, and I know a lot of local APNs. I wish this practice would disappear as well.

ProfessorOZ · Aug 29, 2008

I would like to reply to the general tone of the postings here. I have to say, that I really do sympathize with you all. In my MSN and PhD programs, one in nursing, of course, and one in education, I had to get my own preceptors. As a student, I felt the same as you all. As a floor nurse, I also resented having to do precepting, even with new staff on our unit!

That said, time, experience, and education have changed my mind on this. For one thing, giving back to our profession is the professional thing to do. We are facing a huge nursing crisis and shortage. We have to foster new grads and students. Did you all know that half the new grads each year leave leave nursing before the year is up? A lot has to do with the way they are treated by their colleagues and I'm now sorry to say, I was one of those witches they have to deal with at times, before I learned better.

Now, on the issue of preceptors, as I said, it's our role, as professionals to give back to nursing and doing that isn't something we should be paid for. Also, it's not a way we have (Yes, I now teach nursing.) to get free faculty or not do our jobs. It's a way to expose students to more nurses and learn from nurses in specialties where faculty don't work.

There is also the issue of adult education. We are all adults and we have to get over the ADN approach ADN faculty, me included when I work in the ADN program, have of spoon feeding. Constructivist programs believe that an adult only learns and values that learning if they have a hand in constructing new knowledge. Part of that is learning how to get knowledge you need and who to go to for it. It is expected that you participate in your education, on-ground or online. Finding a preceptor that meets your needs is one of those steps.

There's one other thing. I work in an online program right now that has faculty from around the world and students from around the world. Our students have to find their own preceptors. Any suggestions on how a faculty member in, say, Germany could find a preceptor for a student in Korea or Canada or Athens, GA? If you all have any advice, I would love to hear it, because all our students face problems finding preceptors . . . many just because the preceptor selfishly wants money for doing what should be part of her or his professional responsibilities.

Oh, and lest you think this is unique to nursing, as I said, I had to find preceptors in my PhD program in education. And my friend, who is an MD, precepts students all the time. He thinks it's his duty to medicine to do that. So do my friends who are psychologists, the one who is a social worker, and the one who is a dentist. Only nurses seem to have a problem with this.

ProfessorOz, with an open heart and open mind, willing to hear some helpful suggestion!

BBFRN, BSN, PhD · Aug 29, 2008

I would like to reply to the general tone of the postings here. I have to say, that I really do sympathize with you all. In my MSN and PhD programs, one in nursing, of course, and one in education, I had to get my own preceptors. As a student, I felt the same as you all. As a floor nurse, I also resented having to do precepting, even with new staff on our unit!
That said, time, experience, and education have changed my mind on this. For one thing, giving back to our profession is the professional thing to do. We are facing a huge nursing crisis and shortage. We have to foster new grads and students. Did you all know that half the new grads each year leave leave nursing before the year is up? A lot has to do with the way they are treated by their colleagues and I'm now sorry to say, I was one of those witches they have to deal with at times, before I learned better.
Now, on the issue of preceptors, as I said, it's our role, as professionals to give back to nursing and doing that isn't something we should be paid for. Also, it's not a way we have (Yes, I now teach nursing.) to get free faculty or not do our jobs. It's a way to expose students to more nurses and learn from nurses in specialties where faculty don't work.
There is also the issue of adult education. We are all adults and we have to get over the ADN approach ADN faculty, me included when I work in the ADN program, have of spoon feeding. Constructivist programs believe that an adult only learns and values that learning if they have a hand in constructing new knowledge. Part of that is learning how to get knowledge you need and who to go to for it. It is expected that you participate in your education, on-ground or online. Finding a preceptor that meets your needs is one of those steps.
There's one other thing. I work in an online program right now that has faculty from around the world and students from around the world. Our students have to find their own preceptors. Any suggestions on how a faculty member in, say, Germany could find a preceptor for a student in Korea or Canada or Athens, GA? If you all have any advice, I would love to hear it, because all our students face problems finding preceptors . . . many just because the preceptor selfishly wants money for doing what should be part of her or his professional responsibilities.
Oh, and lest you think this is unique to nursing, as I said, I had to find preceptors in my PhD program in education. And my friend, who is an MD, precepts students all the time. He thinks it's his duty to medicine to do that. So do my friends who are psychologists, the one who is a social worker, and the one who is a dentist. Only nurses seem to have a problem with this.
ProfessorOz, with an open heart and open mind, willing to hear some helpful suggestion!

I think finding a mentor in a PhD program is entirely different than having to find one in an ADN program, where one is new to the profession.

My husband hasn't had to search for his own mentors in his engineering program- they came to the school and recruited students for internships. It would be wonderful if nursing schools had these kinds of events, too.

ivanh3 · Aug 29, 2008

I'm doing SUNY Delhi's RN-BSN program accelerated. This Fall I'm taking the classes that don't require a preceptor, but I'll need one for four classes total in future semesters.
Anyone else in or graduate from online programs that require clinical? How do/did you go about finding a preceptor? I don't know if SUNY Delhi's program is usual or not, but there seems like a lot of stuff a preceptor is required to be in charge of for no pay. For example, the preceptor is to document how the student is meeting goals established with the preceptor and the course (like "student will critically examine literature related to management structure").
Seems like a lot to me, and I'm thinking "Who would want to do this??" But I've promised myself that if I find someone I'll pay it forward and not refuse to precept!

It depends on the type of clinical and also your schools requirement for contracts. I begin my first FNP clinical next week and I just went through all of this. If your class has a clinical portion and your school requires a contract then it depends on the type of facility. For hospitals, the best place to start is the hospital's education department. If they don't deal with setting up clinical time then they know who will.

For smaller facilities like Doc n the boxes, or LTC facilities contact the manager or director of nursing. Again, if they don't actually set things up they will know who does.

Start now. The hardest part of all this is actually getting the contracts set up. If the facility does not already have a contract in place with your school it can take 4 or more months to set them up. Not kidding.

A big part is the type of clinical time as well: is it observation time or hands on time? Some schools don't require a contract if the clinical is observation and under a certain amount of hours.

It is a hard process. I just got my contract in place (3 months to set up) 2 days ago and the class starts next week. I almost had to drop the class because I wasn't sure if the contract was going to go through or not.

Good luck, you will get it done.

ProfessorOZ · Aug 29, 2008

I think finding a mentor in a PhD program is entirely different than having to find one in an ADN program, where one is new to the profession.
My husband hasn't had to search for his own mentors in his engineering program- they came to the school and recruited students for internships. It would be wonderful if nursing schools had these kinds of events, too.

You are very right about that. It is different. As I wrote, we make our ADNs do that, too, so I am there with you. Still, in a BSN program, as Delhi has and the original email was about, it's not too much to expect. Hard, yes, and I, too, hated doing it, but it can be done.

I agree with you about your husband not having to do that and it was because they come to the school to recruit. My son's computer and electrical engineering program is like that, too. It speaks to how high the professionalism is in those professions. . . .

I really wish we did that in nursing. It really breaks my heart how we treat our students usually and how we treat our colleagues. I think the reason nurses "eat their young" is because that is what we teach them in nursing programs. I've tried, for my 27 years as a nurse educator not to do that. I have to confess, I wasn't always that way, as an educator or as a floor nurse or nurse manager. I really regret a lot of how I treated colleagues and students when I was new and try to make up for that every day. But I digress, because that's not what this thread is about.

So, how can we do this? How can we find preceptors that are willing to help students at any level? I know how little time most RNs have when working to even think of this, but their skills and knowledge are invaluable to our students. I can't find a preceptor for an online student in CA when I live in FL or Germany or anywhere outside of that town.

Nurse educators are older than the average RN and more of us are retiring sooner. Who will teach our students? There are more prospective students than in the years since the early 90s, but we have to turn them away because we don't have enough clinical sites or faculty. Having support from practice makes a difference. We're not asking them to be faculty, just to share the wealth of knowledge they have and remember what it was like to be a student or new grad.

Please, dear readers, if you have any ideas, I'm listening! In online programs especially, we have this problem. Nurses love these programs because they can learn when they have the time and not go to a physical place at a certain time. With that freedom comes other responsibilities, such as finding preceptors. It's a lot to ask, but isn't it worth the convenience and being treated as an adult learner?

ProfessorOZ, still looking for answsers

JaneyW · Aug 30, 2008

I am entering my last year of an on-line program for an MSN from Cal State Dominguez Hills. I have had a few classes where I needed preceptors I had to find for myself. I was intimidated at first, but it has been a terrific process that has opened up new doors for me, given me terrific contacts for the future and made me more confident. I even found a new job in a different field of nursing that I am enjoying very much.

That being said, my program has not asked too much of these preceptors. Their paperwork was simple and easy to fill out and it was me that had to do most of the work!

I will now be starting a year of precepting with a nursing instructor in preparation of becoming one myself. I still live close to the school I attended and am very excited to be going back and doing my hours with one of my former instructors. She is excited have me back and remembers how she had the same experience many years ago when getting her MSN. I hope to be able to pay it forward myself someday!

BBFRN, BSN, PhD · Aug 30, 2008

One thing to do is to have a clinical coordinator that handles those things. They field out facilities & institutions that can meet the students' needs, they handle the contracts, and they set up the clinical experience. Not all schools have them, but the ones that do make things a lot easier for the students.

llg, PhD, RN · Aug 30, 2008

Schools should definitely have a coordinator who arranges preceptorships IN ADVANCE for their students. This would be a big help.

I am my hospital's liaison with all the local nursing schools. We regularly provide clinical experiences for 8 nursing schools. We have students on almost every unit, every day. On top of that, we have our own orientees who need preceptors. So, each staff nurse can have 2 "learners" to teach/mentor on any given shift. That's NOT COUNTING the senior level students who need to do preceptorships. To suggest that hospitals/nurses who are not able to provide a lot of individual preceptorships for senior students are someone "not willing to help the next generation" or "eating their young" or anything remotely like that is way off the mark.

My less than 200 bed hospital provides clinical experiences for more than 500 nursing students per year. We are not "anti-student." We simply can't handle the load of students accepted into schools so anxious to expand that they have accepted more students into their programs than they have resources to educate.

The first thing that needs to happen is that schools need to stop accepting more studentss than they and their local facilities can handle. Overloading the educational system, compromising the quality of the education provided, and producing graduates unprepared to function in the real world is NOT helping the so-called "nursing shortage." It only makes it worse by wasting precious resources and over-burdening the staff nurses -- adding to their stress and driving them away from the bedside.

Quality is what we need ... not just quantity. If we improve the quality of the education and the quality of the work environments for existing staff, the "nursing shortage" will improve.