ProfessorOZ

My apologies for coming late to this and I freely admit that I didn't read all 40+ comments. The first page I did read and I think some things are being missed here. I do work at an online school, though not Chamberlain, so I can address this a bit. We have NP or MD preceptors for our NP students. They approve the hours that the NP students complete. If this student is reporting those hours, then his preceptor has to have approved them. I can't comment on the hours being misreported, but we can't blame the school for what he and the preceptor are reporting. The other issue I see here, with all due respect, astrn, is that you know or think you know something unethical is going on here. There could even be malpractice issues. It is your professional duty to report this to your BON and the school. You don't know who to report it to at Chamberlain? Then call the university and tell the operator that you need to speak to either the dean or chair of the NP program. That person will connect you to someone who can help. I am sorry about any harassment you may be undergoing or fear you'll undergo. I am sorry about the incivility in nursing in general, but we can't not report unethical and possibly illegal behaviors going on or possible malpractice. What if a patient is harmed? Can you walk away from that saying it wasn't your job/responsibility to report something that was going on that you knew was wrong? It's hard to always do the right thing. We are all pointing fingers at this student and the school. My mom taught me, when I point a finger at someone, three others are pointing back at me. I hope you will do the right thing, since he and, according to him, other students aren't. I know it's hard, but you may save someone's life by doing the right thing.

From the first moment I learned about nursing diagnoses, right through the 20 years I've been a nurse educator, I have said that these were just another symptom of nurses trying to be little physicians. I totally agree that I don't need a nursing diagnosis to be able to give patient care. This goes hand-in-hand with the nursing care plan. That was a concept that was developed to teach nursing students how to think about all aspects of nursing care and defend their decisions and care. It wasn't meant to be used in the hospital with RNs who actually knew the knowledge base, but some nursing administrator saw it in use, thought it a good idea, used it, published about it, and . . .

You are very right about that. It is different. As I wrote, we make our ADNs do that, too, so I am there with you. Still, in a BSN program, as Delhi has and the original email was about, it's not too much to expect. Hard, yes, and I, too, hated doing it, but it can be done. I agree with you about your husband not having to do that and it was because they come to the school to recruit. My son's computer and electrical engineering program is like that, too. It speaks to how high the professionalism is in those professions. . . . I really wish we did that in nursing. It really breaks my heart how we treat our students usually and how we treat our colleagues. I think the reason nurses "eat their young" is because that is what we teach them in nursing programs. I've tried, for my 27 years as a nurse educator not to do that. I have to confess, I wasn't always that way, as an educator or as a floor nurse or nurse manager. I really regret a lot of how I treated colleagues and students when I was new and try to make up for that every day. But I digress, because that's not what this thread is about. So, how can we do this? How can we find preceptors that are willing to help students at any level? I know how little time most RNs have when working to even think of this, but their skills and knowledge are invaluable to our students. I can't find a preceptor for an online student in CA when I live in FL or Germany or anywhere outside of that town. Nurse educators are older than the average RN and more of us are retiring sooner. Who will teach our students? There are more prospective students than in the years since the early 90s, but we have to turn them away because we don't have enough clinical sites or faculty. Having support from practice makes a difference. We're not asking them to be faculty, just to share the wealth of knowledge they have and remember what it was like to be a student or new grad. Please, dear readers, if you have any ideas, I'm listening! In online programs especially, we have this problem. Nurses love these programs because they can learn when they have the time and not go to a physical place at a certain time. With that freedom comes other responsibilities, such as finding preceptors. It's a lot to ask, but isn't it worth the convenience and being treated as an adult learner? ProfessorOZ, still looking for answsers

I would like to reply to the general tone of the postings here. I have to say, that I really do sympathize with you all. In my MSN and PhD programs, one in nursing, of course, and one in education, I had to get my own preceptors. As a student, I felt the same as you all. As a floor nurse, I also resented having to do precepting, even with new staff on our unit! That said, time, experience, and education have changed my mind on this. For one thing, giving back to our profession is the professional thing to do. We are facing a huge nursing crisis and shortage. We have to foster new grads and students. Did you all know that half the new grads each year leave leave nursing before the year is up? A lot has to do with the way they are treated by their colleagues and I'm now sorry to say, I was one of those witches they have to deal with at times, before I learned better. Now, on the issue of preceptors, as I said, it's our role, as professionals to give back to nursing and doing that isn't something we should be paid for. Also, it's not a way we have (Yes, I now teach nursing.) to get free faculty or not do our jobs. It's a way to expose students to more nurses and learn from nurses in specialties where faculty don't work. There is also the issue of adult education. We are all adults and we have to get over the ADN approach ADN faculty, me included when I work in the ADN program, have of spoon feeding. Constructivist programs believe that an adult only learns and values that learning if they have a hand in constructing new knowledge. Part of that is learning how to get knowledge you need and who to go to for it. It is expected that you participate in your education, on-ground or online. Finding a preceptor that meets your needs is one of those steps. There's one other thing. I work in an online program right now that has faculty from around the world and students from around the world. Our students have to find their own preceptors. Any suggestions on how a faculty member in, say, Germany could find a preceptor for a student in Korea or Canada or Athens, GA? If you all have any advice, I would love to hear it, because all our students face problems finding preceptors . . . many just because the preceptor selfishly wants money for doing what should be part of her or his professional responsibilities. Oh, and lest you think this is unique to nursing, as I said, I had to find preceptors in my PhD program in education. And my friend, who is an MD, precepts students all the time. He thinks it's his duty to medicine to do that. So do my friends who are psychologists, the one who is a social worker, and the one who is a dentist. Only nurses seem to have a problem with this. ProfessorOz, with an open heart and open mind, willing to hear some helpful suggestion!