Filipino Nurses to Canada...."caregivers" or nurses??

pinoy_guy · Apr 23, 2008

the us doesn't owe pi nurses a work visa and a good living because conditions are bad in your own country (which, i'm sorry to say, is an attitude that turns up in many (not all! :)) posts here by people from the philippines). it is not the responsibility of the other countries of the world to "rescue" you from the problems in your own country and your own government.

very observant.

i'm wondering about the rash of posts demanding for green cards, as if graduating from nursing school entitles one to a green card.

clarklopez23 · May 12, 2008

It is true that your government does not owe us a visa/greencard. That's why most of us are patiently waiting for a visa to be issued and most of us cannot do anything about it. Your hospitals are pushing for immigration bills for foreign RNs because you have a shortage and you need foreigners to fill the gap. And we believe that we could not emigrate to your country without the proper documents and the necessary credentials and experience. And we believe that we are competent to accept the job because before we can step onto your soil we have to pass 4 screening types: CGFNS, ICHP, IELTS, NCLEX. And for that "glorified maid" label, most nurses will accept jobs from Canada for the purpose of emigrating. It's a starting point. Most "glorified maids" will have to take CRNE and apply as permanent residents in Canada. BSN would accept LPN jobs in Canada because they still have to pass the CRNE first before they can be issued license as RNs in Canada.If CRNE is just offered overseas, most if not all Filipino RNs bound to Canada would have been RNs. And of course, you cannot expect a foreign RN without passing the CRNE to work as an RN in Canada. That's the main reason why they have to accept LPN jobs first--to apply for CRNE. And if they fail trice, then they are repatriated because CRNE is a condition for their employment.

Fiona59 · May 12, 2008

From what little is known of this programme, and Capital Health is keeping it very quiet, the education of BSNs does not meet the same standards as that of a Canadian eduated BScN. It is roughly the equivalent of a Canadian educated PN. There are reports coming out of the local college doing the "introduction to Canadian Nursing" course that these new arrivals have limited skills and require a lot of remedial education. Skills that any nurse should have.

Too much is being kept in the dark from nurses in Canada on this programme.

Once you see the level of skills required by LPNs to work in Capital Health you might not sound so dismissive of the opportunity being offered to countrymen. LPNs in Capital Health usually have graduated from the most intensive practical nursing programme in Canada, hit the floor running with their skills in place and only a five shift orientation as do local RN graduates. The skills utilized by the PNs are identical to those of the RN with the only restrictions on the duties being that a RN is required to hang the blood for transfusion (but then two RNs have to initiate it together anyways) and the insertion of a NG tube (which PNs are eduated in but Capital Health restricts this skills to RNs), the care of PICCs will be assigned to PNs by the end of the year. So don't look down on the PN.

Ginger's Mom, MSN, RN · May 12, 2008

It is true that your government does not owe us a visa/greencard. That's why most of us are patiently waiting for a visa to be issued and most of us cannot do anything about it. Your hospitals are pushing for immigration bills for foreign RNs because you have a shortage and you need foreigners to fill the gap. And we believe that we could not emigrate to your country without the proper documents and the necessary credentials and experience. And we believe that we are competent to accept the job because before we can step onto your soil we have to pass 4 screening types: CGFNS, ICHP, IELTS, NCLEX. And for that "glorified maid" label, most nurses will accept jobs from Canada for the purpose of emigrating. It's a starting point. Most "glorified maids" will have to take CRNE and apply as permanent residents in Canada. BSN would accept LPN jobs in Canada because they still have to pass the CRNE first before they can be issued license as RNs in Canada.If CRNE is just offered overseas, most if not all Filipino RNs bound to Canada would have been RNs. And of course, you cannot expect a foreign RN without passing the CRNE to work as an RN in Canada. That's the main reason why they have to accept LPN jobs first--to apply for CRNE. And if they fail trice, then they are repatriated because CRNE is a condition for their employment.

\

You are so confused, there is no nursing shortage in the USA. For the record, I know of any hospital where they are recruiting foreign nurses.

Many of US trained nurses are having trouble finding jobs. No hospital I know of is pushing any immigration bills.

Foreign nurses were not the answer to the last nursing shortage and it is not now. The crendentials you mention are for the most basic nursing credentials. The learning curve for an experience foreign trained nurse is very steep, many of the posts here are from new nurses with no clinical experience. The orientation that is needed is very expensive and takes away educational resources from the nurses working.

Working as a Maid or caregiver does not help the nursing profession, it may get you out of your country for a short time but will not advance your nursing career. Nurses in the US and Canada have worked long and hard to promote Professional nursing, yet your countrymen denograte nursing by accepting low class positions which will require housecleaning and being treated like a servant.

My understanding is that in Canada one has to pass a test to become a LPN, a BSN does not mean you are a LPN. If one is qualified to work as a RN why accept an LPN position? Why would a place recruit you unless they want cheap labor.

As an American, how would you like it if I came and applied for jobs in your hospitals ?

Sorry the situation is so horrible in your country but the US and Canade are not your golden parchute.

MY last point, if my hospital had to recruit foreign trained nurses ( although I don't know of any) They would first recruit nurses from the Uk where the culture and lanuage is the same.

high hopes · May 13, 2008

It's not the US government's fault that there are problems in the Philippines. Your country was training hundreds of thousands more nurses than it can use or support long before the recent retrogression, and, I'm sorry, the US doesn't owe PI nurses a work visa and a good living because conditions are bad in your own country (which, I'm sorry to say, is an attitude that turns up in many (not all! :)) posts here by people from the Philippines). It is not the responsibility of the other countries of the world to "rescue" you from the problems in your own country and your own government. People who are desperate are always vulnerable to being exploited and abused. What are Filipinos doing to fix the problems in your country besides looking for a way, any way, to leave? As long as that is the "answer," I can guarantee you nothing will improve there.
And the US is not the only country that has started setting stricter limits/restrictions on foreign nurses coming in -- the EU has, also, I understand. And, since the rest of the world is aware of the recent serious problems in nursing education in the Philippines, and the proliferation of "puppy mill" nursing schools that are pumping out huge numbers of very poorly trained graduates, you can expect other countries to become increasingly suspicious of nurses trained there and reluctant to hire them. PI nurses can no longer just assume that you can go anywhere in the world you choose and get a good job.

I agree with you. It's not the responsibility of the US or any other country that there is an oversupply of nurses in the Philippines. I don't know why some filipinos tend to demand a lot from the US government or some other country when in fact, the defect lies here in our country(Philippines) itself. If only the government control the number of nursing schools in the Philippines, by closing down the nursing schools who are below the standard, regulating the opening of nursing schools and be strict in regulating the nurses here then this problem would have never arise. :nono: I know that some filipinos are very hardworking and are pretty good in what they do but remember: one bad apple spoils the whole bunch. thats all:)

frances Ivy · May 13, 2008

There are so many scope related job in nursing..

try to watch the movie CAREGIVER so you can have idea what jobs waiting for a caregiver & to salute care givers

clarklopez23 · May 14, 2008

\
You are so confused, there is no nursing shortage in the USA. For the record, I know of any hospital where they are recruiting foreign nurses.
Many of US trained nurses are having trouble finding jobs. No hospital I know of is pushing any immigration bills.
Foreign nurses were not the answer to the last nursing shortage and it is not now. The crendentials you mention are for the most basic nursing credentials. The learning curve for an experience foreign trained nurse is very steep, many of the posts here are from new nurses with no clinical experience. The orientation that is needed is very expensive and takes away educational resources from the nurses working.
Working as a Maid or caregiver does not help the nursing profession, it may get you out of your country for a short time but will not advance your nursing career. Nurses in the US and Canada have worked long and hard to promote Professional nursing, yet your countrymen denograte nursing by accepting low class positions which will require housecleaning and being treated like a servant.
My understanding is that in Canada one has to pass a test to become a LPN, a BSN does not mean you are a LPN. If one is qualified to work as a RN why accept an LPN position? Why would a place recruit you unless they want cheap labor.
As an American, how would you like it if I came and applied for jobs in your hospitals ?
Sorry the situation is so horrible in your country but the US and Canade are not your golden parchute.
MY last point, if my hospital had to recruit foreign trained nurses ( although I don't know of any) They would first recruit nurses from the Uk where the culture and lanuage is the same.

You are more confused than t I. What I am saying here is backed up by research. Check on your government's department of labor site to be well informed that you are indeed having a nursing shortage. And why in the first place that hospitals are hiring nurses from foreign lands particularly the Philippines? That is because you need a Nurse to fill the gaps. And most of your nurses are already complaining of understaffing (again, check on researches and also ANA's campaign).

All nurse will undergo a learning period/orientation before they are assigned to their areas. Even US educated RNs will have to undergo this before they deployment.

You might be correct that these examinations are just basic examinations, but remember we passed 4 different screening types. If you are educated in the US, you only need to pass the NCLEX. What more if you pass the NCLEX, IELTS, CGFNS, ICHP. We read the same books and had the same training. I just want to emphasize that nurses from the Philippines are already good enough, trained enough and educated enough before they can even step onto your soil because of the rigorous screening.

About cheap labor, I'm sorry but your labor department would not allow a petitioner to hire a nurse from overseas if they are not capable to pay at least the minimum wage of nurses in the US. In Canada, hired nurses are starting at $24 per hour and that's not cheap. We hold the same place and esteem like other US and Canadian counterpart.

I have nothing against UK or Canadian nurse on emigrating to your country because we are on the same situation. They will undergo the same process like any other nurse emigrating to your country, no more, no less.

I wouldn't even want to think that a hospital or a community health center in the Philippines will a hire a nurse like you.IN the Philippines, you have to be theoretically knowledgeable and resourceful because of the limited equipment and instruments. That's why nurses here a girl scouts. They can survive in the wilderness or wherever in the world into whatever setup maybe because we are exposed to the ideal and the not ideal nursing setups.

About safe nursing, we will not compromise our hard earned licenses that's why we need to strive to be at par with the nurses in the country we chose to go.

Emigrating to the US is a win-win solution for everybody. Filipino nurses will relieve the nursing shortage and in return have a stable and better way of living in the US.And I am sorry to say that you are not in the position to stop any recruitment because indeed, the US is a mixture of culture and mixture of races.

namurit · May 14, 2008

I couldn't agree more with you clarklopez23.

Fiona59 · May 14, 2008

You really don't understand that licensing bodies are finding nurses educated in the Phillipines deficient in skills and educational hours to practice overseas.

Any nurse should be able to perform basic skills regardless of the type of equipment available to them. Nurses educated in your land are arriving here in Alberta unable to perform a simple bladder catheterization.

Nursing schools in the Phillipines are being viewed as puppymills. And nobody buys a puppymill puppy willingly.

I understand being proud of your homeland and education but the arrogance in many posts from nurses in the Phillipines is overwhelming and quite frankly we don't need nurses with attitudes as we have enough already.

Personally, I know five nurses who have left the field because of working conditions, issues about families, injuries. Depending on where you live and work there are places that have more nurses than they can use. So yes, the shortage is a myth in some parts of both Canada and the US

elkpark · May 14, 2008

Your hospitals are pushing for immigration bills for foreign RNs because you have a shortage and you need foreigners to fill the gap.

This has been discussed on this site repeatedly, but I understand that people in other countries are getting told very different stories and I'm sure it's hard to figure out what is really true from a far distance. There is no nursing shortage in the US. The US government's own figures show that there are more than enough licensed US RNs to fill every vacancy in the country; many of them are just not choosing to work as RNs because of the poor pay and working conditions in so many hospitals (some of those are already returning to employment as nurses because of the economic problems here now, and many more probably will be in the near future). There are some problems with distribution of nurses in the US; there are some areas that have legitimate shortages -- but there are other areas of the US (the more popular, desirable places to live) where the market is saturated with nurses and many nurses there (especially new graduates) can't find jobs. Look at all the threads about this elsewhere on this site! My entire state, officially, according to the state government agency that tracks this, has no nursing shortage and has not had one for many years. Plenty of other states are in the same situation. Much of the talk of "shortage" is just that, talk, and designed to suit some individual's, or organization's, particular agenda and interests.

The reason some hospitals and nursing homes like to hire foreign nurses is that they keep the nursing salaries down and working conditions poor -- yes, there are US laws that require that foreign nurses not be paid any less than the minimum offered to other nurses. But that's just it -- the MINIMUM. Foreign nurses from poor countries are delighted (understandably) to come here and work for the bare minimum pay, in terrible working conditions, that are unacceptable to many US RNs -- but, if hospitals can import cheap labor from abroad, then they don't have to pay nurses more or improve the working conditions. I see posts here all the time about how terrible the pay and working conditions are for nurses in the PI -- how would PI nurses like it if your hospitals started importing nurses from some country where the standard nursing salary in the PI was wealth beyond anything they ever dreamed of, and they would be perfectly happy to work for whatever low salary, and whatever poor working conditions, the PI hospitals offered them and be grateful for the opportunity?? What do you think would happen to salaries and working conditions for PI nurses then? They would go down, wouldn't they? Would PI nurses think that was a "win-win solution for everyone"? I doubt that very much.

Fortunately, the retrogression has put a stop to this for the time being, and I hope the US will never go back to a situation where employers can just "bus in" large quantities of nurses from other countries at will. Also, even if/when immigration for nurses opens up again, I think that employers will be looking much more carefully and skeptically at Filipino nurses than they have in the past because of all the bad publicity about the nursing education problems now in the PI.

Nurse!Nurse!Hello? · May 14, 2008

You are more confused than t I. What I am saying here is backed up by research. Check on your government's department of labor site to be well informed that you are indeed having a nursing shortage. And why in the first place that hospitals are hiring nurses from foreign lands particularly the Philippines? That is because you need a Nurse to fill the gaps. And most of your nurses are already complaining of understaffing (again, check on researches and also ANA's campaign)...
About cheap labor, I'm sorry but your labor department would not allow a petitioner to hire a nurse from overseas if they are not capable to pay at least the minimum wage of nurses in the US. In Canada, hired nurses are starting at $24 per hour and that's not cheap. We hold the same place and esteem like other US and Canadian counterpart...
I wouldn't even want to think that a hospital or a community health center in the Philippines will a hire a nurse like you.IN the Philippines, you have to be theoretically knowledgeable and resourceful because of the limited equipment and instruments. That's why nurses here a girl scouts. They can survive in the wilderness or wherever in the world into whatever setup maybe because we are exposed to the ideal and the not ideal nursing setups...
Emigrating to the US is a win-win solution for everybody. Filipino nurses will relieve the nursing shortage and in return have a stable and better way of living in the US.And I am sorry to say that you are not in the position to stop any recruitment because indeed, the US is a mixture of culture and mixture of races.

Importing foreign nurses is most certainly NOT "a win-win solution for everybody!" It keeps salaries low for US nurses, because imported nurses from poor countries think $24 an hour is a lot. Employers love that kind of thinking!

It really is a shame that the quality of nursing education in the Philippines has deteriorated to the point that it has. The Filipino nurses I work with who trained years ago have a skill level equivalent to US nurses. Sadly, the same cannot be said of the more recent graduates. We really don't need "girl scouts" who can be resourceful due to a lack of equipment--nursing education in the US focuses on understanding and utilizing the latest medical technology. Are nursing students in the Philippines getting the same type of training and experience?

A lot of posters here want desperately to believe that there is a massive nursing shortage in the US, and that importing the "best nurses in the world" will fix that. The "best nurses in the world" are already in the US, but some of them are not currently working as nurses. The focus here now is to address the problem with salary and working conditions so that these nurses will once again want to work as nurses. The focus here now is to retain nurses, and to encourage US citizens to become nurses. In my own state, there is an initiative to address staffing problems by helping facilities to address issues so that they can retain their nurses, as well as attracting new students to the profession. The initiative is designed to help the US fulfill its own nursing requirements. THAT is the "win-win solution" for the US!

As you stated, the US is a land of immigrants. We have welcomed people with open arms. Unfortunately, there are just too many people who want to come here, so people have to wait their turn--> "retrogression."

It really is very frightening that so many people in the Philippines are suddenly attending sub-standard nursing schools in the hope of getting a fast green card. A lot of them don't even really seem to care about nursing. It shows. Lately the only people who think that the Philippines produces the "best nurses in the world" are Filipinos.

clarklopez23 · May 15, 2008

I understand your sentiments as nurses in the US. What I am pointing out here is that WE DON'T GET HIRED UNLESS WE ARE QUALIFIED.You set your own standard for us to be hired. Nurses from the Philippines who are good enough and passed the standards set by YOU will then be hired.

Nurses in the Philippines including our nursing organizations are also rallying to keep our country's standards abreast. We are exhausting every possible ways and means to close schools who have way below the standard practices because we believe that the nursing profession is a noble profession. I share your sentiments about the denograting standard of nursing in the PHilippines. It is not our happiness to see such scenario because of the greedy nursing schools and corrupt government.

That's the primary reason why your country has the SCREENING PROCESS. So as to filter rotten nurses from the good nurses. Why in the world did you hire a nurse unable to perform basic urinary catheterization? IT IS BECAUSE OF YOUR FLAWED SCREENING PROCESS (probably), it can also be because the person is a citizen of your country who just went back to the Philippines to take up nursing and went back to your country to practice. That is why we have the screening process to filter SAFE AND USAFE NURSING PRACTICEs. And it is your option to repatriate nurses back to their country if unable to perform the safest nursing practice possible.

I respect your belief on the nursing shortage. But still, you are not in the position to stop recruitment drives. An more are still being recruited.

ON salary, I'm speaking of an entry level salary and all nurses in the US entering the profession will have to start as an entry level. If nurses are experienced, then there will be appraisal. It is not really cheap to hire nurses from foreign land because an employer will have to shoulder thousands of dollars for the recruitment drive and other expenses. The US Dept of Labor is very keen on hiring nurses overseas so as not to affect the existing wage in the labor market.

I believe that it is not our intention to stir or even fight with our counterparts in countries we chose to work. We get there to work and to advance our careers as most of you here would want for yourselves. We did not grab this once in a lifetime chance to emigrate to show that we are incompetent or to even degrade our esteem by doing unsafe nursing. After all we are just second class citizens in your country. We have to adjust with your culture and with the way you live.

I firmly believe that no institution is perfect and the Philippines is one of those. NOT EVEN AN ALMOST PERFECT NATION LIKE YOURS WILL BEAR AN ALMOST PERFECT PEOPLE/NURSES.