Filipino Nurses to Canada...."caregivers" or nurses??

Silverdragon102, BSN · May 15, 2008

I understand your sentiments as nurses in the US. What I am pointing out here is that WE DON'T GET HIRED UNLESS WE ARE QUALIFIED.You set your own standard for us to be hired. Nurses from the Philippines who are good enough and passed the standards set by YOU will then be hired.
Nurses in the Philippines including our nursing organizations are also rallying to keep our country's standards abreast. We are exhausting every possible ways and means to close schools who have way below the standard practices because we believe that the nursing profession is a noble profession. I share your sentiments about the denograting standard of nursing in the PHilippines. It is not our happiness to see such scenario because of the greedy nursing schools and corrupt government.
That's the primary reason why your country has the SCREENING PROCESS. So as to filter rotten nurses from the good nurses. Why in the world did you hire a nurse unable to perform basic urinary catheterization? IT IS BECAUSE OF YOUR FLAWED SCREENING PROCESS (probably), it can also be because the person is a citizen of your country who just went back to the Philippines to take up nursing and went back to your country to practice. That is why we have the screening process to filter SAFE AND USAFE NURSING PRACTICEs. And it is your option to repatriate nurses back to their country if unable to perform the safest nursing practice possible.
I respect your belief on the nursing shortage. But still, you are not in the position to stop recruitment drives. An more are still being recruited.
ON salary, I'm speaking of an entry level salary and all nurses in the US entering the profession will have to start as an entry level. If nurses are experienced, then there will be appraisal. It is not really cheap to hire nurses from foreign land because an employer will have to shoulder thousands of dollars for the recruitment drive and other expenses. The US Dept of Labor is very keen on hiring nurses overseas so as not to affect the existing wage in the labor market.
I believe that it is not our intention to stir or even fight with our counterparts in countries we chose to work. We get there to work and to advance our careers as most of you here would want for yourselves. We did not grab this once in a lifetime chance to emigrate to show that we are incompetent or to even degrade our esteem by doing unsafe nursing. After all we are just second class citizens in your country. We have to adjust with your culture and with the way you live.
I firmly believe that no institution is perfect and the Philippines is one of those. NOT EVEN AN ALMOST PERFECT NATION LIKE YOURS WILL BEAR AN ALMOST PERFECT PEOPLE/NURSES.

Many nurses are currently not getting licensed in the Philippine's and still looking at moving to the US. The screening for the US does not do any practical testing therefore how can it screen out the 'rotten nurses' they are assessed on their transcripts and then pass the NCLEX. Not sure how the many nursing schools in the Philippines can offer practical training when there is indication that the number of students outweigh the number of patients. No one has indicated that there is a perfect nation all that has been expressed is their experience of nurses with no practical experience and in some cases not able to perfor basic nursing care.

suzanne4, RN · May 15, 2008

You are more confused than t I. What I am saying here is backed up by research. Check on your government's department of labor site to be well informed that you are indeed having a nursing shortage. And why in the first place that hospitals are hiring nurses from foreign lands particularly the Philippines? That is because you need a Nurse to fill the gaps. And most of your nurses are already complaining of understaffing (again, check on researches and also ANA's campaign).
All nurse will undergo a learning period/orientation before they are assigned to their areas. Even US educated RNs will have to undergo this before they deployment.
You might be correct that these examinations are just basic examinations, but remember we passed 4 different screening types. If you are educated in the US, you only need to pass the NCLEX. What more if you pass the NCLEX, IELTS, CGFNS, ICHP. We read the same books and had the same training. I just want to emphasize that nurses from the Philippines are already good enough, trained enough and educated enough before they can even step onto your soil because of the rigorous screening.
About cheap labor, I'm sorry but your labor department would not allow a petitioner to hire a nurse from overseas if they are not capable to pay at least the minimum wage of nurses in the US. In Canada, hired nurses are starting at $24 per hour and that's not cheap. We hold the same place and esteem like other US and Canadian counterpart.
I have nothing against UK or Canadian nurse on emigrating to your country because we are on the same situation. They will undergo the same process like any other nurse emigrating to your country, no more, no less.
I wouldn't even want to think that a hospital or a community health center in the Philippines will a hire a nurse like you.IN the Philippines, you have to be theoretically knowledgeable and resourceful because of the limited equipment and instruments. That's why nurses here a girl scouts. They can survive in the wilderness or wherever in the world into whatever setup maybe because we are exposed to the ideal and the not ideal nursing setups.
About safe nursing, we will not compromise our hard earned licenses that's why we need to strive to be at par with the nurses in the country we chose to go.
Emigrating to the US is a win-win solution for everybody. Filipino nurses will relieve the nursing shortage and in return have a stable and better way of living in the US.And I am sorry to say that you are not in the position to stop any recruitment because indeed, the US is a mixture of culture and mixture of races.

Sorry, but it is you that are mistaken first of all. Sure, you see shortages when you look at job postings in labor markets but that happens all over and the US is actually investing in training Americans to work as RNs, and it can be done in the same time that it takes a foreign nurse to get thru the immigration process in case you are not aware that even without the retrogression the processing wait is about two years or so.

It is not a win-win situation for everyone, there is still a limit on the number of green cards issued per year, and with some areas not having jobs for American grads, then the need is not as great. And first your country, before anything else, needs to take the time and clean up the programs that are being offered there and realistically look at what they are doing there before anyone looks at another country to move to. At last count, and very recently, there were over 950,000 students enrolled in RN programs there, and you tell me where they are going to work. The US only has 10,000 EB-3 green cards available per year for those from your counry and that includes dependents. So the chances of one ever being able to work here is greatly being diminished and not improving by an stretch of the imagination.

Until the US started offering the NCLEX overseas just a couple of years ago, it was only offered in the US and people were required to take the CGFNS exam in most countries first to be able to start the immigration process, and that actually required that they had a local license before they could sit for the exam. With the sharp increase in the nuumber of nurses in your country, we are also expecting to see the local license again required, as we are seeing states ask for again now, as well as experience.

There are still other countries where one may go to get experience, and they can work in the role of the RN; and not as a caregiver. To work as an LPN or an RN in another country, actually requires that one pass a licensing exam to start off with amd meet the requirements to work there.

And in case that you are not aware of, only about 44% of grads from your country are passing the NLE the first time, and there are schools that have not had one graduate pass the exam. As well as the fact that many programs have 15 to 18 students per one patient, and I have actually witnessed nurses coming here and never have inserted a foley catheter, NG tube, start an IV, or even know how to spike an IV, or draw up a medication. The clinical training in about 350 programs there is not up to the clinical standards that are taght over in the US. And when you have a CI that is also a new grad and has never worked, you are not going to expect things to get better any time soon.

And it is not a win-win situation for the doors to open for all nurses to enter and be able to work in the US. It does not benefit anyone at all.

Sorry, but your argument has way too many holes in it and does not hold water at all, and the responses that you are getting here are from American nurses that are actually in the US and can see from a day to day thing what is happening here.

And even if you are one of the lucky ones, your training is still not the same as what is being done in the US, and the job responsibilities of nurses here are much different than in your country as well, so again, you will not be in the count of the staff on your unit for sometime, until you get a longer than usual orientation.

And if you do not like what we are telling you, you are free to go to another country or stay where you are. Behavior that you have expressed here is not a good trait for a nurse. You should be willing to practice anywhere and not just in the US, do hope that you did not go to school for the sole purpose of being able to work in the US.

Libby_09 · May 15, 2008

Honestly, the irrational bashing of Philippine Nurses in this forum has to stop. No one is claiming that Philippine Nursing right now is perfect but that doesn't mean that we can instantly assume that the majority of nurses right now is sub-par. The only thing lacking is experience and when given a chance to enhance and improve their skills, I believe that we can perform just as well, if not better, than the nurses in other countries especially USA. Just because some of you got there first or graduated when there were fewer nursing students doesn't necessarily mean that the later graduates are inferior. That's crab mentality right there. A trait, sadly, that's all too common to Filipinos and displayed widely around here.

A lot of you already in the USA were given a great opportunity to work there and it's great that you have taken advantage of it. Why not give the rest of us the benefit of the doubt? There is no perfect screening but there are enough exams to, in theory, weed out most of the so-called unskilled workers.

Ginger's Mom, MSN, RN · May 15, 2008

If you have computer access , listen to American Talk Radio, most Americans want to close the boarder to any immigrants. Reason is that many Americans are looking for employment. Even if there was a nursing "shortage", Americans prefer that the umemployed get retrained to gain employment.

Immigrants ( as a whole ) will work cheaper than Americans often the quality of the work is not the same.

When there was a large influx of Nurses from the Phillipines, the regular staff where I worked was very resentful. One ,the imported nurses where given housing and transportation and benefit the staff did not have. Since the imported nurses did not have family responsiblites ( such as picking up your child at daycare, physically caring for an elder parent, worrying about having your car inspected, etc,etc, etc) they were given the over time that the American Nurses counted on to support their families.

The imported nurses, did not add to the community they live in (nursing or the city ). For example many staff nurses are required to be on committies at the hospital in addition to there regular work load, the imported nurses due to the fact they were having trouble adjusting to the floor were exempt. Community issues such as the local school system the nurses had no involvement and paid no taxes ( school taxes are raised through housing costs which the imported nurses did not have to pay).

Culturally the imported nurses would not speak English on the floor even in patient rooms. If 2 phillipino nurses went into doing a treatment they would not speak English, enhance many patient complaints. If the charge nurse making an assignment and the philliphine nurses did not like it they would talk in their native lanuage infront of the charge nurse, how pleasant is that for the charge nurse, and yes, it was against alll the rules.

My last point, you cite the qualifications are the same, yes you pass the same test, but as an employer, I would check the reputation of the school which an applicant graduated from. In my state you can look on the Board of Nursing how many nurses pass the NCLEX the first time, to me this is an indication of how the program is. Also I would ask the student what clinical rotations they had.Most employers call the clinical instructor ( I know since this is the time of year I am writing and recieving many calls). The questions I am asked is what type of patients did the student hace and what experiences were they exposed to. I understand many time the clinical experience in the Phillipines is very limited. How can an employer get this information for an imported nurse?

Yes, there may be some wonderful nurses, but there are many wonderful potential US nurses, to me as a US citizen and as a nurse importing is not the answer.

The foreign nurses that I have worked with who do well are the nurses who come to America to be an AMerican heart and soul. They live in the community, they pay taxes, and add to the nursing practice where they work.

suzanne4, RN · May 15, 2008

It is not a point of bashing, but when someone comes here and posts that the US needs to open their doors to accept them, then things become different. And that is what we have all have issues with.

But this thread has strayed from the topic that was originally being discussed over and over again, so is now being closed.

This thread was about nurses going to Canada to work either as caregivers or nurses...................and it is led off to a free for all.

Thread closed.

suzanne4, RN · May 15, 2008

And just to clear something up, none of us have problems or issues with foreign nurses coming to Canada or the US, but when someone comes and states that that US or Canada needs to change their rules to suit them, then we take offense at it.

There is still a limit as to the number of green cards that are issued per year, and it goes by country of birth; and the maximum for any one country is just under 10,000 and that includes dependents for the US. The H1-B is no longer a viable option as it was once the only way of getting to the US and then the nurse needed to proved themselves to their employer before they were petitioned for the green card and they were usually here for about five years before that happened. Getting a green card right away or landed immigrant status in Canada is actually fairly new.

If one wants to work in either of these countries, then great. But they cannot expect things to change just to suit them. And if I did not like working with Filipinos, why in the world would I spend so much time hleping them pass their English exams as well as the NCLEX-RN exam.