Asking this question for a family member. I used to be a nurse, no longer working as a nurse but is still in health care so I am very unfamiliar with the current process. My family member just found out he failed the clinical portion of nursing school. I remember back then, I really did not learn much from nursing school clinically. I learned a bit from my externship and the majority on the job. With this COVID pandemic, classes including clinical experience are converted to online. How is it possible for the school to fail someone who never sees a patient, receives the 1:1 preceptorship with a nurse, and learns the nursing skill?
Your post sounds like just excuses. Why isn’t the student on here him or herself and explaining what happened? Some random professor has a lot more experience than you teaching random students and is pretty familiar with excuses. Be well.
Don’t you ever want to help your family member? “Some”...most clinical instructors in the areas are nurses who are working just like me...some are newer nurses than me...so ya “experience”...whatever LOL...
That means the other 50% made it through just fine. My school has less than that attrition, but the students who made it through the program passed NCLEX on the first try (95%<).
What were the reasons your student failed the clinical? Was your student given another opportunity to repeat his or her clinical stimulations? Did he or she complete assignments? Did he or she come in on time virtually?
For my school, I had to repeat my clinical simulation until I passed the required minimum. I had to come online ahead of time. I had some technical difficulties, but I've never missed anything. When my instructors called me during this crisis, I picked up my phone right away letting them know that I had problems getting in. I screenshot to prove that I wasn't playing them. I took photos and sent them via SMS. Don't know what your student did.
If the nursing school specified that your student cannot repeat the simulation online (clinical online), I understand your frustration. I would try to compromise.
I am sorry but if a school with attrition of 50%, they should not be opened and teach...even med school attrition rate is higher than that.
even med school attrition rate is higher than that.
Actually the attrition rate for medical school and nursing school is very similar..about 6%. Reasons for leaving a medical program may be different than academic issues though. Medical school failure is almost never an academic problem or an inability to handle the material. Nursing attrition is usually for academic issues. Either the school has admitted students who were not at an academic level to process and learn the material or the testing/evaluation and teaching were not on the same level. "The teacher just didn't like me" is not usually the reason for failure. Looking at the NCLEX pass rates and attrition rates are important activities to do before committing to the school. This type of information is usually required to be available in the school's materials by either an accrediting body or the 'gainful employment' requirement. Sometimes I have read on here where some hopeful applicants to a program with poor NCLEX rates say, "But I am determined I will succeed despite the numbers!" It takes more than sheer will to get through nursing school, I think we can all agree on that!
Actually the attrition rate for medical school and nursing school is very similar..about 6%. Reasons for leaving a medical program may be different than academic issues though. Medical school failure is almost never an academic problem or an inability to handle the material. Nursing attrition is usually for academic issues. Either the school has admitted students who were not at an academic level to process and learn the material or the testing/evaluation and teaching were not on the same level. "The teacher just didn't like me" is not usually the reason for failure. Looking at the NCLEX pass rates and attrition rates are important activities to do before committing to the school. This type of information is usually required to be available in the school's materials by either an accrediting body or the 'gainful employment' requirement. Sometimes I have read on here where some hopeful applicants to a program with poor NCLEX rates say, "But I am determined I will succeed despite the numbers!" It takes more than sheer will to get through nursing school, I think we can all agree on that!
*** my bad...I meant this nursing program 4 semesters graduation rate is ~50% and 6 semesters graduation rate is ~60% VS med school ~85%...
It is interesting that nowhere in the initial post or the subsequent posts that the OP acknowledged that the family member took any responsibility for the failure. All I am reading is that nursing school clinicals are worthless and no one should fail due to the fact they were unable to satisfactorily pass what was required.
On 12/17/2020 at 8:31 PM, candicenguyen said:
I don't know how a nursing instructor can fail someone with virtual online. Even medical school is not doing something as stupid and non-sense like this.
You do realize that the hospitals are the ones preventing nursing students from doing clinicals in their hospitals? It is the hospitals' choice to continue to let medical students in the hospital during Covid. If online clinical requirements are "stupid", what would have been your solution?
It is interesting that nowhere in the initial post or the subsequent posts that the OP acknowledged that the family member took any responsibility for the failure. All I am reading is that nursing school clinicals are worthless and no one should fail due to the fact they were unable to satisfactorily pass what was required.
You do realize that the hospitals are the ones preventing nursing students from doing clinicals in their hospitals? It is the hospitals' choice to continue to let medical students in the hospital during Covid. If online clinical requirements are "stupid", what would have been your solution?
Sorry I am busy with medical school and research I don’t have to write the whole story for you...so if you want to give constructive advice I would appreciate it. If not, I don’t think I need to spend my time sitting here answering all your irrelevant questions okay.
.most clinical instructors in the areas are nurses who are working just like me...some are newer nurses than me...so ya “experience”...whatever LOL...
BTW early on you told us you were not longer a nurse anymore.
Look, I tried to help, honestly and constructively. I explained the need for completing the appeals process in a timely manner. But:
1 hour ago, candicenguyen said:
I don’t have to write the whole story for you..
Without any factual evidence of how this student met or did not met the course objectives or school's expectations of satisfactory performance we cannot help, and can only ask for more information.
But here goes:
If the student failed because of failure to achieve a passing grade, reapplies and is readmitted:
1) review the study habits including but not limited to class notes, handouts, textbooks, and other assigned readings . (It does not matter if the student or the other students have not read in the past and passed anyway. The content becomes more difficult with the building on previous concepts.) He is at the end of the program - it is tough!
2) Attend all test reviews or schedule one with the involved instructor (s) Attend ALL classes or zoom sessions or anything that is scheduled as a learning experience.
3) Investigate the availability of tutors/study groups/ learning specialists or needed accommodations. Does he have a good computer connection and a quiet place to study?
4) Review what other activities are occupying the student's time. Working too much? How can you ameliorate that?
5) Support the student by providing positive support -- not dissing everything about the school's pass rates, attrition rates, unavailability of in person clinical sites and the implementation of virtual learning (due to a very real pandemic), the state of nursing education, the fact that nursing is still in an apprenticeship-type educational system and quality of instructors.
You have said you are no longer a nurse in one of your first comments so it probably is best if you remove your nurse's view of your dissatisfaction with everything in the profession and concentrate on your future role in health care as a member of a different profession. (Also you may want to modify your distaste for nursing education when involved with the nurse's caring for your patients- reputations are earned in healthcare by your interactions - positive or negative - .) Good luck with your future studies and residency.
My frustrations with the thread are real. Not because of what has been said but because somewhere a nursing student may be confused, hurt or scared. Nursing is tough without a bedrock of support. Many students get through without support but many fail.
I am sorry but if a school with attrition of 50%, they should not be opened and teach...even med school attrition rate is higher than that.
Sorry for not being clear. I was talking about the school's attrition rate, not the nursing program alone. Don't be surprised not to retain all the students at the end of the program.
Don’t you ever want to help your family member? “Some”...most clinical instructors in the areas are nurses who are working just like me...some are newer nurses than me...so ya “experience”...whatever LOL...
Who cares about being new nurses or instructors? I had clinical instructors who were nurses before I was born (I'm in my 30s). I didn't learn the procedures they could train me for. No patients were readily available in a hospital.
You are so right. We have all probably had a teacher/instructor/professor or two who were hard to understand or didn't break things down to a learnable level. BUT WE LEARNED! I had an instructor who stormed out of a 'neuro' lecture because she felt we all hadn't read the book prior to the class. I still had to learn the neuro content and did. Self-directed learning is an inherent part of being a student.
I have also had stellar learning experiences with instructors -- so much that they made me vitally interested in something that I never thought twice about. Educational experiences just vary between students and faculty.
You are so right. We have all probably had a teacher/instructor/professor or two who were hard to understand or didn't break things down to a learnable level. BUT WE LEARNED! I had an instructor who stormed out of a 'neuro' lecture because she felt we all hadn't read the book prior to the class. I still had to learn the neuro content and did. Self-directed learning is an inherent part of being a student.
I have also had stellar learning experiences with instructors -- so much that they made me vitally interested in something that I never thought twice about. Educational experiences just vary between students and faculty.
I had to read whether I like it or not if I wanted to pass. It was required to read and answer questions in the worksheet to be in the theory, lab, and clinical days.
If I didn't read and did my part as a student, I'm probably posting here blaming teachers or whoever.
Sorry I am busy with medical school and research I don’t have to write the whole story for you...so if you want to give constructive advice I would appreciate it. If not, I don’t think I need to spend my time sitting here answering all your irrelevant questions okay.
This explains volumes. I am so sorry to interrupt your very important MEDICAL school research and have to explain things to us nursing peasants. Your post answered my question. He did not take responsibility for his failure because I am sure you have convinced him that nursing clinicals have far less value than the all mighty medical school rotations. Why is he even in nursing school? It seems like a complete waste of his time when he can be a doctor and look down his nose at the lowly nurses.
candicenguyen
27 Posts
Don’t you ever want to help your family member? “Some”...most clinical instructors in the areas are nurses who are working just like me...some are newer nurses than me...so ya “experience”...whatever LOL...