Facial coverings effective?

Nurses COVID

Published

I’m sure I have an unpopular opinion but does anyone else feel like the mass push for facial coverings and masks has very little benefit? Think about it (I know this is immature, so forgive me) if a fart can go through underwear and a pair of jeans... can’t good ol’ Rona go through a piece of cotton? Not only that, the general public is not educated in how to wear PPE and are not wearing the masks or gloves correctly.

Frankly... mask and gloves provide them with a false sense of security.

As nurses, we are keenly of what’s clean or sterile so we can do a pretty good job navigating ourselves in public during this pandemic. However, not trying to be disrespectful or anything, watching the public on with their masks and gloves on is quite entertaining to say the least. I was in Whole Foods recently and you can see who’s a medical professional from a mile away as it’s obvious to see which hand they’ve designated as their “dirty hand” and how they hold they hand in resting position while grocery shopping! If I can smell my coffee through my mask as I pick up a new bag from the shelf and toss it into the cart, then Rona ain’t going to be fooled by my mask. I’m not willing to waste an N95 for grocery shopping.
I just don’t see the need for a mask out in public unless you have a new or sudden change in cough or are immune compromised. We will always have rouge individuals who will defy advice and not wear a mask when sick, but I’m talking about the general public. I do see the benefit when you have a cough as it will stop the droplets from traveling further. But just breathing in and out can transfer this virus... I don’t know how a mask will provide protection from this.
I live in a fairly wealthy area where almost EVERYONE is wearing a mask in public. For those who are not wearing a mask, is it because of a conscious decision, typically unrelated to financial reasons.

My case is: I don’t see the efficacy of surgical/homemade masks against coronavirus for healthy individuals.

Thoughts?

1 hour ago, Wuzzie said:

It appears that there is some data that supports the use of cloth masks in public.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7191274/

There’s also data that says they aren’t. I don’t disagree that a fabric mask could work if it’s made a used properly, but that’s not what is happening. If you insert a filter, have it fit around your nose and face properly, they could be a great alternative. But now it’s just a fashion accessory and who can get the cooler fabric. I refuse to participate in that.

And don’t even get me started on gloves. I get grossed out seeing people use them improperly. Especially at the drive thru window. Taco Bell seriously has the best policy in place for the drive thru which honestly shocked me a little.

If it makes someone feel better to wear it, by all means do it.

16 minutes ago, LovingLife123 said:

There’s also data that says they aren’t.

I would be interested to see that data if it's current. The earlier stuff that's out isn't particularly relevant anymore as we have continued to learn about the idiosyncrasies of this virus.

Specializes in Private Duty Pediatrics.
44 minutes ago, moriahcat said:

But wait, you're able to find hand sanitizer where you live? Lucky duck... ? I'm treating the whole outside world as "dirty", including my car, and just washing hands well when I come home.

And I also wash well when I get home. Depending on where I have been, I may be changing my clothes, too.

I have hand sanitizer at home because I keep medical supplies handy. I must have bought this large bottle last Summer.

I also have masks that I bought last fall, because I stock up before the flu season . . .

Gloves, alcohol, peroxide, bandages; I keep a supply of that sort of thing year 'round.

5 hours ago, Here.I.Stand said:

A fart is gases.... atoms/molecules are much smaller particles than viruses so of course they can escape easily through fabric.

Besides some protection is better than none. Yet-to-be-symptomatic infected person sneezes in Walmart... do you not want those droplets contained?

Sometimes, if you’re not careful, they ain’t always just gases... if you know what I mean ?

5 hours ago, Wuzzie said:

Just for clarification can you explain to me what you think the purpose of wearing a mask in public is?

To stop the spread is the goal. I’m just not sure this is very effective to reach that goal.

2 minutes ago, Thanksforthedonuts said:

To stop the spread is the goal. I’m just not sure this is very effective to reach that goal.

Well I guess I would think it's better than letting people spew their stuff all over the place. At least most of it's caught in the mask. Remember, my mask protects you.

2 hours ago, FolksBtrippin said:

Yes, masks are effective at slowing down the spread. This is a droplet illness. Your mask protects others from your droplets. How is it that nurses don't know this? Hopeless.

My mother says I’m hopeless too sometimes...

9 minutes ago, Wuzzie said:

Well I guess I would think it's better than letting people spew their stuff all over the place. At least most of it's caught in the mask. Remember, my mask protects you.

Exactly, you said “my masks protects you”. But I don’t spew stuff everywhere, and I don’t have a cough, and I do daily tempt checks. I have already quickly self quarantined once when I suspected something due to an unexplainable low grade fever. Should continue to wear a mask? I just see no sense it in when people at Costco are wearing gas masks, take it off, cough in their gloved hand, and continue on with their shopping.

It was funny, at Costco this weekend I was a guy with a gas mask (this is like the 5th I’ve seen) with no filters on! I could his mouth through the 1in holes on each side of the mask. What good would this false sense of security provide him with? None. Our Costco also requires face coverings for entrance and, bless their hearts, they saw nothing wrong with this mask. Meanwhile, employees are pulling their masks down/up to talk to each other clearly on the floor. Multiple times I’ve seen people pull down/up their masks to cough. The nurse in me obviously cringes and wants to correct these members of our public, but there are just too many occurrences each time I leave the house. Now.. I just find it comical, sadly.

Let be honest... the people who most need the masks due to “spitting/spewing” during coughs are the engineer and lawyer type seniors who think they are above us commoners and refuse to wear mask from the beginning.

3 minutes ago, Thanksforthedonuts said:

Exactly, you said “my masks protects you”. But I don’t spew stuff everywhere, and I don’t have a cough, and I do daily tempt checks. I have already quickly self quarantined once when I suspected something due to an unexplainable low grade fever. Should continue to wear a mask? I just see no sense it in when people at Costco are wearing gas masks, take it off, cough in their gloved hand, and continue on with their shopping.

Yes you should because you emit particles when you breathe and talk not just when you are coughing. Not having a fever means nothing as we can be infectious without being symptomatic. I don't understand why you see no sense in doing what you can, as an educated healthcare worker and a member of the human race, to decrease the spread of this disease just because there are random ignorant people among us.

5 minutes ago, Wuzzie said:

Yes you should because you emit particles when you breathe and talk not just when you are coughing. Not having a fever means nothing as we can be infectious without being symptomatic. I don't understand why you see no sense in doing what you can, as an educated healthcare worker and a member of the human race, to decrease the spread of this disease just because there are random ignorant people among us.

Honestly, I’m just being inquisitive and asking this question of the healthcare providers here that I have grown to admire over the years.

Now I see what you say about emitting particles just by breathing. I think I touched in this vaguely in my original post. Will the surgical mask prevent particles such as these from entering my simple surgical or homemade mask? These masks become less effective the longer we wear them, if I remember correctly.

My gripe, if I had one, is that I don’t think these homemade masks/facecoverings don’t do any real good. Again, it’s a false sense of security. If we could add HEPA filters, then that would be a whole other story.

2 minutes ago, Thanksforthedonuts said:

Now I see what you say about emitting particles just by breathing. I think I touched in this vaguely in my original post. Will the surgical mask prevent particles such as these from entering my simple surgical or homemade mask? These masks become less effective the longer we wear them, if I remember correctly.

There are two different mask-wearing scenarios that I think you are conflating and that's why you are confused.

1. Health care workers at work: A simple surgical mask is primarily being worn to prevent droplet spread from the person wearing the mask (think of why surgical teams wear them) to the patient and others. A surgical mask does a better job than cloth in preventing the wearer from inhaling droplets from other people but not that much better. They leak too much. We wear these masks for non-covid situations or covid situations where risk of fine aerosilization is minimal. N-95s are worn in the face of procedures that produce fine aerosolization. Wet masks do, indeed, have decreased efficiency.

2. General public out and about: a cloth mask does absolutely nothing for keeping things from coming in but seem to do a pretty decent job at keeping them from coming out. Which is why the more people who wear a mask the more protected everybody is. If I wear a mask and you do not you are protected but I am not. Hardly seems fair does it?

30 minutes ago, Thanksforthedonuts said:

My gripe, if I had one, is that I don’t think these homemade masks/facecoverings don’t do any real good. Again, it’s a false sense of security. If we could add HEPA filters, then that would be a whole other story.

A little detail on the mask that was made for me (by the Stitch Witch who is also a retired GP who I've stayed in contact with cuz we knew each other socially as well):

Material: Batik quilting cotton, whatever she had/could get -- these are cute in the "hippie chic" style, but not outright "fashionable" like many being sold by retailers.

Pattern/style: 3 layers of the cotton, pocket for filter, pocket for nose wire (required for a decent fit/keeping it the proper shape). Fabric ties designed to go around nape of neck/back of head, each ties vs the top being a plain nonadjustable loop.

Fit on my face (standard adult pattern, my face is "youth" sized per my optometrist): Nose area could use some double-sided tape, because there is little seal there, but the nose wire helps keep shape/against face. It is tight against my cheeks and jawline thanks to the tightness of the fabric ties, though the fabric (being a little large) gaps underneath the jawline -- still, again, double sided tape could help achieve a "seal" if added where the mask already fits very snugly on cheek/jawline and along the nose bridge line (vs along the bottom of the mask itself).

Now, whether quilting cotton really is the best fabric is undetermined. Apparently some research was done with tea towels (???), others with mixing cotton with other materials. She went with quilting cotton based on a Wake University unproven trial.

Are they better than nothing? Probably. Heck, coughing into your elbow is better than nothing.

Is any fabric mask, even with sticky tape added and cutouts from vacuum cleaner bags placed in that pocket like they should be, going to be a substitute for masks that have had proper studies done on them, such as actual surgical masks (vs cheap waiting room patient-use ones), or N95 respirators?

Of course not.

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