Extremely Offensive ER experience

Creamsoda, ASN, RN · Nov 19, 2011

But also let me add, that although I am not surprised they labeled you as a drug seeker, which I get that your not, how they treated you was unprofessional. Your pain should have been dealt with more appropriately.

darkangel83 · Nov 19, 2011

I went to the hospital because I could no longer stand the level of pain I was experiencing. 'Think of how humiliating as a nurse it is to admit that and than think how much more humiliating as a nurse it would be to be labeled as a drug attic. Then you will understand my frustration. All of you are basically saying "you should have stayed at home and sucked it up." When your step-father who has been an MD for 35 uswest says maybe you should go to the ER, you go. I didn't want to, but I also didn't want to die that night. I didn't expect to be treated like the pill head that they thought I was. If the LP was that important, they should have said so instead of talking about me in the hallway.'

Agreed...talking about patients negatively in earshot NOT appropriate. Secondly...nowhere did I see ANYONE telling you to 'stay home and suck it up'. They were merely explaining that you had all of the options available to you. Thirdly, I don't know why...but the fact that you keep referring to your stepfather who is a GP for 35 years is kind of bothering me...but that is my own problem :) You obviously knew you needed help...referring to his judgment isn't changing my mind about anything.

'It's obvious the ER nurses are offended here. Maybe because they are being called out for their normal behavior. Fine. I didn't decline narcotics, I tried to use the least strength med that would work and when that no longer worked, I went back. Continue to treat your pt's this way and take nothing from this post. If I decide to write a letter to the hospital, its my freaking prerogative. I'm tired of all of the old jaded nurses labeling every pt in pain as a drug attic. It happens on my floor as well. The open minded nurses reading this may use it as something to think about. The rest of you will continue to walk around in your own little jaded world and complain about everyone who walks through the door. Peace out.'

I'm not offended...it just seems as though you came here expecting EVERYONE to agree with you. Fact of the matter is...you are not always going to receive 100% support. You have received several plausible explanations and a great deal of information from very experienced ER nurses. You're right...if you want to write a letter, that is your business and I don't think anyone is here to try and change your mind about that!

Editorial Team / Moderator · Nov 20, 2011

In my experience, how patients feel about their visit is often about managing their expectations. I tell my patients that the ED is all about ruling out life threats. (We tell our military folks that the ED is for life, limb, or eyesight, period ... doesn't stop all kinds of non-emergent folks from being present 24x7, which is the reality of our unique healthcare system.) But once we've ruled out the life threat for any patient, that is where we essentially exit from the equation; that is the point at which a patient needs to work with their specialist or primary care manager to find causes and solutions. And yes, a patient has every right to participate in his or her plan of care and to consent to or decline procedures, but once you throw a roadblock in a physician's plan of care, you've pretty much exited the highway and are back on your own street.

OP, I'm sorry you had a bad experience in this particular ED. I wasn't there, I won't judge either way. I'm also not sure what your expectations were posting in an ED nursing forum and venting about a bad ED visit, but when you start getting accusatory about the seasoned and professional ED nurses here that have taken the time from their lives to respond to your concerns in a thoughtful manner, it usually isn't well received. I do hope that you can come back to this thread when you're feeling better and review the information provided to you.

I'm also very glad that you have found some kind of resolution to your pain issues (which I'm sure were quite frightening with the intensity you've described), and that you're getting better. That level of pain is enough to drive anyone crazy, and quite frankly, most patients don't walk into any ED in a happy frame of mind ... most patients never want to cross our threshold, so it's a rocky start from the get-go in many cases.

I also have to say I'm quite proud of the ED nurses in this forum for showing restraint and wisdom. Thank you for continuing to do so.

nerdtonurse?, BSN, RN · Nov 20, 2011

1) Never trust a patient to tell you what they do or don't have unless it's visible trauma....

"I didn't have s/s of meningitis" -- really? I have seen people with meningitis who presented with a unilateral HA Sunday morning, nausea, thinking they had a horrible, horrible sinus infection, just wanted something until they could get to their PCP in the AM on Monday. And we were putting them into a body bag Sunday night -- 18 yo, hit'm quick, and we couldn't save them. Were admitted for pain control, we did the admission database, never had a stiff neck until the very end, looked just like a migraine -- the pt'd had been on enough motrin to choke a cow, and it kept the fever from manifesting until after we'd done a LP and ruled IN meningitis (of course, by then, half the staff needed to take Cipro). And by then, the pt was seizing, got intubated, but died before the helicopter got there. Tore all of us up for days.

2) You come to me for help, let me help you or hit the door.....

I'm 48 years old, and when I ended up in my own ER with bellypain, they did a pregnancy test, despite me telling them no way. I didn't refuse it, I know they had to rule out an ectopic. Just if I rolled in with a 4 day headache that was getting worse that nothing was breaking, they'd have wanted a stat LP -- and I've had an LP. 3x. Not fun, but not a big deal, at least they numbed the site. And if you already had a headache that bad, it would have been submerged in the first headache. If a patient hits the door telling me what they will and won't do, what meds they will and won't take, what tests they will or won't have...and I've got an acute MI and an evolving CVA and a GI bleed with a hgb of 4...you're going to sit there while I help the people who will let me help them.

3) You're mad and you want to write a letter. Fine. Do it.

What exactly are you wanting them to do? Give the next person whatever meds/tx they want without doing the first reasonable, logical diagnostic? And then complain because they gave the person with a headache pain meds and sent them away, and missed a slow bleeding aneurysm? Or a mass? Or the 1000 other things that can cause a headache, where the first logical thing to do is to rule out meningitis?

Write away. They'll get an "atta boy" for following procedure and doing what they were supposed to do.

AppleRN4 · Nov 20, 2011

I went to the hospital because I could no longer stand the level of pain I was experiencing. Think of how humiliating as a nurse it is to admit that and than think how much more humiliating as a nurse it would be to be labeled as a drug attic. Then you will understand my frustration. All of you are basically saying "you should have stayed at home and sucked it up." When your step-father who has been an MD for 35 uswest says maybe you should go to the ER, you go. I didn't want to, but I also didn't want to die that night. I didn't expect to be treated like the pill head that they thought I was. If the LP was that important, they should have said so instead of talking about me in the hallway.

Just because you're a nurse doesn't mean you're operating at some higher level, where you don't experience excruciating pain-- I see no reason to be humiliated that you're in pain. It's a human experience and nothing to be ashamed of.

I also DON'T understand WHY you'd be labeled as a drug addict- you practically refused narcs to treat your headache! I don't think the nurses were talking about you in reference to the drug addict comment, could've easily been talking about someone else. From your history, I think you're one of those medical professionals who refuse pain meds to AVOID being labeled as a drug addict, not vice versa.

No one ever said you should've stayed home and sucked it up!!! Most people here have tried to give logical explanations for your treatment, however you're stuck on being a victim. At some point, you have to take responsibility for the lack of care you received, as you were the one dictating it!

Your step-father maybe an MD for 35 years and suggest you go to the ED, but I'm sure he didn't suggest you become a difficult, know-it-all patient.

Last but not least, the LP was THAT important, and I'm sure the doctor explained it to you, or assumed you had basic knowledge of it's diagnostic capability given the fact that you're a nurse, you've had it before AND refused it in the past. It's a catch 22 with you- you wanted something done, yet you wouldn't let them do it or wanted it YOUR way. :confused:

Beggers can't be chosers....

superwoman27 · Nov 20, 2011

You seem very offended by the responses here. Maybe you should take them to heart because that's how people are going to view your letter to the president - you being a whiner.

Esme12, ASN, BSN, RN · Nov 20, 2011

I have had such a similiar experience. My partner had had surgery on a fissure and it had become infected- I'm talking giant hole seeping like a faucet....she was in tremendous pain and our private specialist OBVIOUSLY wasn't able to help at midnight when she was in searing pain (I didn't even attempt to call of course because it was midnight!). I gave every single possible pain relief that I could at home and in the end took her to the local emergency department. She was in so much pain she could hardly move so I threw on some tracky pants and a hodded jumper on her. Once there they took her through to a room- and advised me I wasn't able to go in because it's "family only" (we are a lesbian couple, we own a house together, and are by law recognised as a defacto couple). I sat there after being told NUMEROUS times 'no, family only' until finally at 4am she was in so much pain she walked in to the waiting room and opened the door for me to go through. Once there she was in tears of pain, I could not believe it! She hadn't been seen and hadn't been given pain relief- I stood at the counter while two nurses were out the back, patiently waiting and FINALLY they looked at me. I asked why she hadn't been given pain relief and they looked at each other like "yeah right"...hadn't even looked at my partner! They had NO idea what her pain was in relation to! I was advised "we don't give pain relief to people unless they have seen a dr and he is busy". I politely advised her that I am aware that they can contact the Dr for a phone order...funnily enough they did this.
When the Dr came a further 2 hours later my partner was in so much pain- he didn't look at her physically (honestly the hole was about the size of an Aussie 20 cent piece and STINKY infected), and said "what do you want me to do". I must say, it took a lot of strength NOT to say something nasty. We had waited 6 hours in there before a Dr saw us, my partner was in tears of pain the entire time, and I was forced to wait in the waiting room for 4 hours because "I wasn't family".
I politely requested he contact the specialist for advice, WHICH HE DIDN'T...he gave us a discharge letter with the WRONG diagnosis on it. I promptly contacted the specialist at 7am and he had her admitted to the private hospital and in surgery by 10am, on huge antiobotics and pain relied, and advised it was the worst infection and condition he had ever seen on someone her age.
I complained and nothing ever happened, not even an apology...

THere are jerks and morons that practice medicine everywhere.. :mad: .

I'm sorry you have to find an ER full of them....in excusable! I hope your partner feels better:heartbeat

DixieRedHead, ASN, RN · Nov 20, 2011

You seem very offended by the responses here. Maybe you should take them to heart because that's how people are going to view your letter to the president - you being a whiner.

Any anybody knows that ER people had just as soon hear a fat baby ft as hear a grown person whine.

DixieRedHead, ASN, RN · Nov 20, 2011

A patient does have the right to refuse any medical treatment. They do NOT have the right to dictate it.

Guest219794 · Nov 20, 2011

To the OP:

You posted on an ER forum. You got the consensus opinion of ER nurses. If you were just looking for sympathy, it would have made more sense to post here.

Your definition of excruciating pain includes being able to safely drive a car. Don't know how you got to the ER the second trip, but that's how you got there the first time. when your pain was "unbearable". As an ER nurse, this will factor into my assesment.

Of course I listened to my pcp. She's knows way more about me than an ER doc who has never seen me before.

Yup. And she did not prescribe a PRN narcotic for pain. This has been a long and wandering thread. What did you end up doing with the 6 percocets?

Today I received an Occipital Nerve Block. It is helping quite a bit

Right. Not an ER procedure. Good thing you had a specialist follow up.

Mediacally speaking, you were a low priority pt in the ER, and were treated appropriately. The ER nurses used poor judgement in expressing their belief that you were drug seeking. They should have done that out of ear shot.

I think you should write that letter. Pleast post both it, and a copy of the response when you get it.

And serously, if you are looking for support for your shabby treatment, there are some great forums out there.

Ruby Vee, BSN · Nov 20, 2011

it's obvious the er nurses are offended here. maybe because they are being called out for their normal behavior. fine. i didn't decline narcotics, i tried to use the least strength med that would work and when that no longer worked, i went back. continue to treat your pt's this way and take nothing from this post. if i decide to write a letter to the hospital, its my freaking prerogative. i'm tired of all of the old jaded nurses labeling every pt in pain as a drug attic. it happens on my floor as well. the open minded nurses reading this may use it as something to think about. the rest of you will continue to walk around in your own little jaded world and complain about everyone who walks through the door. peace out.

if anyone is offended, it may have something to do with the idea that you're being offensive right now. the only thing i'm taking from this whole series of posts is that it's impossible to please some folks.

by the way -- not sure what a "drug attic" is. spell checker gone awry? or some new term with which i, as an old jaded nurse am not familiar?

Ruby Vee, BSN · Nov 20, 2011

i have had such a similiar experience. my partner had had surgery on a fissure and it had become infected- i'm talking giant hole seeping like a faucet....she was in tremendous pain and our private specialist obviously wasn't able to help at midnight when she was in searing pain (i didn't even attempt to call of course because it was midnight!). i gave every single possible pain relief that i could at home and in the end took her to the local emergency department. she was in so much pain she could hardly move so i threw on some tracky pants and a hodded jumper on her. once there they took her through to a room- and advised me i wasn't able to go in because it's "family only" (we are a lesbian couple, we own a house together, and are by law recognised as a defacto couple). i sat there after being told numerous times 'no, family only' until finally at 4am she was in so much pain she walked in to the waiting room and opened the door for me to go through. once there she was in tears of pain, i could not believe it! she hadn't been seen and hadn't been given pain relief- i stood at the counter while two nurses were out the back, patiently waiting and finally they looked at me. i asked why she hadn't been given pain relief and they looked at each other like "yeah right"...hadn't even looked at my partner! they had no idea what her pain was in relation to! i was advised "we don't give pain relief to people unless they have seen a dr and he is busy". i politely advised her that i am aware that they can contact the dr for a phone order...funnily enough they did this.
when the dr came a further 2 hours later my partner was in so much pain- he didn't look at her physically (honestly the hole was about the size of an aussie 20 cent piece and stinky infected), and said "what do you want me to do". i must say, it took a lot of strength not to say something nasty. we had waited 6 hours in there before a dr saw us, my partner was in tears of pain the entire time, and i was forced to wait in the waiting room for 4 hours because "i wasn't family".
i politely requested he contact the specialist for advice, which he didn't...he gave us a discharge letter with the wrong diagnosis on it. i promptly contacted the specialist at 7am and he had her admitted to the private hospital and in surgery by 10am, on huge antiobotics and pain relied, and advised it was the worst infection and condition he had ever seen on someone her age.
i complained and nothing ever happened, not even an apology...

not an er nurse; won't comment on your er experience. i do, however, wish that everyone who wished to do so could get married. i completely fail to comprehend how same-sex marriage could "threaten families."