expelled for academic dishonesty

lilredrn · Jun 5, 2011

We had a student get kicked out for plagiarizing a paper. She outright copied it from a student a few quarters before her. She got a lawyer and because there was a discrepancy between the nursing program's plagiarism policy and the college-wide plagiarism policy, she was let back in, graduated and is now a practicing RN. :nono:

keepmovingrn · Jun 5, 2011

Wow....I would be sick (literally vomiting) to know it was all my fault as to why I got kicked out from not only the program but the school. I cant believe a nursing student or any student for that matter, who has worked so hard to get into such a highly competive program would take such stupid risk. I do feel sorry for you, if you truley did want to become a nurse bc I dont think your are going to be able to get into another program.

Maybe if you wait a few years and reapply at another school. Everybody makes mistakes and can learn from them. Good luck.

dudette10, MSN, RN · Jun 5, 2011

Everybody makes mistakes...

This student planned to cheat, devised a method to cheat, carried out the plan, and attempted to cover it up upon the instructor's first pass. How is that a "mistake"? This is willful disregard of the rules, while knowing the consequences of the premeditated and deliberate action to cheat.

emilyBABSNRN · Jun 5, 2011

this student planned to cheat, devised a method to cheat, carried out the plan, and attempted to cover it up upon the instructor's first pass. how is that a "mistake"? this is willful disregard of the rules, while knowing the consequences of the premeditated and deliberate action to cheat.

this person did not murder someone....if we are going to get into a moral argument, i think we should talk about hospitals putting patients at risk all in the name of a bottom dollar. that compromises lives and the future of peoples health. hmos? anyone see john q? this person did not harm anyone but his or her own future. he is, in effect, the "perpetrator" and the "victim". obviously they know the repercussions clearly now and im sure regrets it. we all know how grueling nursing school is. yes it was stupid to do, but if you remember what you learned in psychology, the prefrontal cortex is not fully developed in a person into their 20s. yeah....that's what i thought. long term planning...ie the ability to foresee consequences. stop judging when you don't know the circumstances. :devil:

dudette10, MSN, RN · Jun 5, 2011

this person did not murder someone....if we are going to get into a moral argument, i think we should talk about hospitals putting patients at risk all in the name of a bottom dollar. that compromises lives and the future of peoples health. hmos? anyone see john q? this person did not harm anyone but his or her own future. he is, in effect, the "perpetrator" and the "victim". obviously they know the repercussions clearly now and im sure regrets it. we all know how grueling nursing school is. yes it was stupid to do, but if you remember what you learned in psychology, the prefrontal cortex is not fully developed in a person into their 20s. yeah....that's what i thought. long term planning...ie the ability to foresee consequences. stop judging when you don't know the circumstances.

i don't know how to even begin responding to your post because it brings in murder, greed of money, a movie, the difficulty of nursing school, and prefrontal cortex development...all of which are irrelevant to the fact that the student cheated, got caught, and got thrown out of school because of it.

i do have one question for you, though. what point are you trying to make?

keepmovingrn · Jun 5, 2011

this person did not murder someone....if we are going to get into a moral argument, i think we should talk about hospitals putting patients at risk all in the name of a bottom dollar. that compromises lives and the future of peoples health. hmos? anyone see john q? this person did not harm anyone but his or her own future. he is, in effect, the "perpetrator" and the "victim". obviously they know the repercussions clearly now and im sure regrets it. we all know how grueling nursing school is. yes it was stupid to do, but if you remember what you learned in psychology, the prefrontal cortex is not fully developed in a person into their 20s. yeah....that's what i thought. long term planning...ie the ability to foresee consequences. stop judging when you don't know the circumstances.

i think i see the point you trying to make but it did go to the left a bit. i think cheating inexcusable and should not be tolerated. and the person that did this should have gotten kicked out of the nursing program, but i dont believe people should continue to kick her when she's already down. i'm sure she is beating herself up enough.

emilyBABSNRN · Jun 5, 2011

I don't know how to even begin responding to your post because it brings in murder, greed of money, a movie, the difficulty of nursing school, and prefrontal cortex development...all of which are irrelevant to the fact that the student cheated, got caught, and got thrown out of school because of it.
I do have one question for you, though. What point are you trying to make?

Counselor, let he who has not sinned cast the first stone. All I'm saying is your post smelled strongly of the verbage used to convict criminals. I brought up the moral argument because it seemed that you were likening this persons "crime" to something more serious. And it smelled strongly of judgement. This person is not a criminal...they made a stupid decision and will pay for it for the rest of their life. It is not irrelevent to bring up VALID moral arguments. Cheating is a problem of morality. If you are trying to say brain development and chemistry didn't play a role in cheating, I think you are mistaken. I was trying to say that yall don't know the circumstances. For all you know this person is a young kid who just didnt have the foresight to plan to study.

dudette10, MSN, RN · Jun 5, 2011

Counselor, let he who has not sinned cast the first stone. All I'm saying is your post smelled strongly of the verbage used to convict criminals. I brought up the moral argument because it seemed that you were likening this persons "crime" to something more serious.

If you want to read more into it than what I wrote, there is not a thing I can do about that.

And it smelled strongly of judgement.

You got that part right. I judged the student as a cheater, based on the OP's description. Apparently, the school did too.

This person is not a criminal...

Agreed.

they made a stupid decision

Agreed.

...and will pay for it for the rest of their life.

A bit dramatic.

It is not irrelevent to bring up VALID moral arguments. Cheating is a problem of morality.

True. And I did. You, however, did not.

If you are trying to say brain development and chemistry didn't play a role in cheating, I think you are mistaken. I was trying to say that yall don't know the circumstances.

This is interesting. Do you know the person personally and can say without a doubt that the brain chemistry is so abnormal, that she was unable to know cheating was wrong and did not understand the consequences of cheating? That's just...bizarre.

For all you know this person is a young kid who just didn't have the foresight to plan to study.

A college-age "kid" not having the foresight to study for a test? If that's the circumstance I am missing, then I feel no guilt over having missed it.

emilyBABSNRN · Jun 5, 2011

I'm not here to argue with you, I was attempting to further the discussion by bringing up new ideas not mentioned. It's one thing if you want to judge someone for their mistakes, that's your problem. But its another story if you want to disregard scienfitic facts regarding neurological and chemical influences in human behavior.

dudette10, MSN, RN · Jun 5, 2011

But its another story if you want to disregard scienfitic facts regarding neurological and chemical influences in human behavior.

I don't disregard them. However, I also like the quote I once read on this site: "If you hear galloping hooves behind you, think 'horse,' not 'zebra.'"

At any rate, if this person has a brain chemistry imbalance that causes them to cheat without knowing it's wrong, maybe therapy would be the best route before seeking to become a nurse.

emilyBABSNRN · Jun 5, 2011

I don't disregard them. However, I also like the quote I once read on this site: "If you hear galloping hooves behind you, think 'horse,' not 'zebra.'"
At any rate, if this person has a brain chemistry imbalance that causes them to cheat without knowing it's wrong, maybe therapy would be the best route before seeking to become a nurse.

I wasn't condoning cheating nor was I trying to lessen the severity of the issue. Cheating viloates the schools honor code, it doesn't break the law. I didn't advocate on behalf of a cheater nor did I say that brain chemistry was the cause. I was bringing up the fact that you are treating it like criminal case....the issue of premeditation is irrelevent. We don't know that this person cheated from the post anyway.

MyGranniePanties · Jun 5, 2011

I don't disregard them. However, I also like the quote I once read on this site: "If you hear galloping hooves behind you, think 'horse,' not 'zebra.'"
At any rate, if this person has a brain chemistry imbalance that causes them to cheat without knowing it's wrong, maybe therapy would be the best route before seeking to become a nurse.

I believe the point that Emily was trying to make ( and she can stop me if I'm wrong) is that the brain chemistry in young adults that makes them make rash decisions and not plan long term is *normal* not abnormal. I don't think she was trying to say the student in question was dysfunctional, only not considering the outcome of a stupid decision.

I don't condone cheating by any means, I work my butt off to maintain a high GPA and it makes me upset when people slide by without putting in the effort. However, I don't think there should be no chance for redemption either. At the schools near me you can not be accepted as a transfer student if you can not attend your previous school, which puts a damper on getting into another brainy program. It would make more sense to me to expel the student from the current program and put him on probation from entering another program for a specific time. I think losing out on that time and potential money/experience that could have been gained would be a lesson well taught.