Excelsior Pass Rate?

[MiaLyse]

Does anyone know Excelsior's passing rate? Just curious. tia

Kelly

[MiaLyse, APRN]

MOST of the others students testing during the same time were failed as well. I encourage everyone considering EXCELSIOR to seriously reconsider a traditional school program. Because as I can attest, you can go through the entire program without difficulty and have all your time and monotary envestment thrown away at the end, without any recoorifice.>>

Yes, I am thinking traditional is the way to go even though Excelsior would work much better with my schedule. I'm slowly working my way through the traditional way.

I was thinking with their low pass rate there must be many who have lost much money.

Kelly

[mona b RN, BSN, RN]

Boy, listen to me. I am starting to sound like Lizz. :)

:rotfl: I don't think so Spazz. :rotfl:

Anyway, I wonder if the wonderdog ever bothered to take the workshops. I would think after failing not only once, but twice, that a person would realize something's not working.

Sounds like somebody's trolling to me. :uhoh21:

mona

[featherzRN, MSN]

I didn't take a workshop, buy any special books or do anything but read the free guide provided by the school itself, and I passed doing the minimum three patients. As did 80% of my 'classmates'. Possibly my LVN school prepared me better to take the CPNE, but they were so disorganized I highly doubt it! :)

[MiaLyse, APRN]

Anyway, I wonder if the wonderdog ever bothered to take the workshops. I would think after failing not only once, but twice, that a person would realize something's not working.

Sounds like somebody's trolling to me>>

Uh oh, not a good thing. The workshops seem like they would help. Ugh, I hate being on the fence about this. I'll just keep taking classes and I'll figure the answer out hopefully soon.

Kelly

[chris_at_lucas_RN, RN]

Ya know, not every program is for every body. Ya do whatcha have ta do if ya wanna be a nurse.

EC gives students an opportunity to learn the material and only have to show up to take the test that demonstrates their knowledge. The program is set up to keep things as even and consistent between sites and across time as they possibly can. Many traditional schools aren't this consistent within individual classes, what with information shared with some students and not others (under the guise of "academic help").

As for the CPNE, on the labs you only have to get 50% (you can retake all four stations if necessary, which sounds like 4 out of 8 to me), and on the PCS's, you only have to get 60% (three out of five). What more could you want? If you still can't get it, maybe you need to practice and prepare a little more or better.

In my traditional school, anything under 69 was failing academically, and for anything under 85%, you failed a skills lab and were required to personally put in four hours of solid practicing under supervision in the skills lab. Forget about clinicals! You could be a total jerk and get an A--and a couple of people in my trad school class were and did. They knew (in most cases) the facts, but couldn't relate to patients or nurses worth bunk. One guy got into an argument with the housekeeper, raised his voice at her, caused her mop bucket to tip, which he determined was her assaulting him, and refused to apologize, and STILL GOT AN A IN THE CLASS!! (Incidentally, he can be licensed in California.)

I think EC makes up for the relative lack of structure by making sure they build in as many fail-safes as possible. I've known people in a BSN program who thought they didn't need to swab a port and who felt that there was no need to follow protocol for sterile fields when changing the dressing on a CVP line. Bright girl academically, but her intuition was lacking.

You know, I found that traditional school wasn't for me. I passed easily and I learned a lot, but I didn't care for the backbiting, I had trouble ignoring instructors' mispronunciations and misinformation (I worried I'd learn something wrong and hurt a patient one day), and believe it or not, the director and one instructor actively kept me from getting info I needed to prepare for an exam until 45 minutes before it started--I was at the school 45 minutes before that, so I missed the email the instructor was supposed to have sent a week earlier.

EC is perfect for me. All the material is right there. The books and reading assignments are clear, and may be used, or you can find out your own info. I have done extremely well. I attended the CPNE and skills workshops and got the rough edges bumped off what I had learned in trad school. I expect to have a blast at the CPNE and I expect to pass.

Traditional nursing school may be perfect for others, for whom EC might be a disaster. So be it, but that isn't a reflection on the schools or the programs, that's just a matter of "goodness of fit."

And as for transferring credits from one nursing school to another, I'd like to hear from anybody who actually was able to do that, and the schools between which they transferred the credits. Each school determines their curriculum and all the little intrinsic details, to be approved (or not) by the NLN. So no two schools will ever be the same, unless they are using the exact same curriculum. It's not a shortcoming of EC, it's a fact of life.

EC is very upfront about everything. I've never seen anything like it--among nursing schools or anything else. They are so upfront about the CPNE that there is a 7.5 lb manual that goes through every single niggling little aspect of it, including details about how to think about various steps and tasks. Jeez, what more could anybody want?

As for California and licensing, if EC's policies "violated" (I think that was the word used, somewhere up there) California's BON's regs so badly, why did it take 20 or more years to get this ban? Take a look at the tuition costs of the state's schools of nursing and see if there isn't the slightest possibility that they might not want to see their tuition dollars heading to New York? Too many successful, terrific Excelsior College nurses out there for it to be because of poor skills or whatever. It's a big state--did they close down other schools whose graduates aren't all perfectly sterling nurses? Didn't think so.

And Spazzy, you could never sound like lizz!!! They broke the mold.... :)

[SickleMoon]

Ya know, not every program is for every body. Ya do whatcha have ta do if ya wanna be a nurse...

Nicely put, Chris.

[Spazzy Nurse, RN]

I second what Sickle Moon said--- beautiful job Chris the girl! :kiss

Kelly--- just do your research, talk to people who have been through the program or who are going with it, and go with your gut when you are ready. It sounds like that is exactly what you are doing already, so I'll just shush now. :)

And "Spazzy Lizz" :chuckle :chuckle :chuckle

[RN34TX]

I enjoyed your post Chris. The motivation behind the CA decision I have no doubt is about money. I found out that the school graduates more new RN candidates in the state of CA than ANY other school in the state. So all of these CA residents are becoming RN's but another state is raking in the money.

I've spoken to the CA board. They have issued RN licenses since the school's nursing program exisited and was NLN accredited (1972) but it has been 20 years since they actually REVIEWED their curriculum, under the prompting of special interest groups.

I find this odd because whenever I apply for a license in a new state, they want my school transcripts to "review" my program to make sure that I took everything an RN is supposed to take-- Microbiology, Maternal Child nursing, psych, etc. So you can't tell me that every time the CA board issued an RN license that they were not aware that Excelsior was not identical to the CA "model curriculum" for RN programs.

The only thing I will disagree on is the actual CPNE itself. I passed my first time around but not everyone who takes it gets the same degree of difficulty. 2 of my PCS's were so easy I was literally standing around most of the time. The other 2 ( I had to repeat one PCS) I barely finished on time because I got a lot of time consuming areas of care to complete and felt rushed. If you get all easy PCS's you go back home telling everyone that it's no big deal and that people fail because they weren't prepared. (Which is true in many cases, but not always in my opinion.)

One student in my group failed her Peds PCS. She had a screaming 6 year old who would not cooperate. I had an easy 12 year old who needed next to nothing. Yes nurses have to deal with difficult patients everyday, but is it fair to put extra stress on students during an exam by giving them patients like that? I just think that it was a lot easier for me to demonstrate my skills on my patient than it was for her because I got an easier patient and that is why I do not think that the exam is always fair. She also got assigned a confused patient who spoke no English whatsoever and no one in the hospital could interpret. She was asked assess his level of orientation (person, place, time) - she passed anyway. I got assigned the same area of care but my patient spoke English and was alert and oriented. Fair exam? Not from what I saw that weekend. I did think that the examiners were very fair and supportive for the mostpart but I've heard from many students getting assigned patients in restraints, etc. and these are hurdles that do not need to be thrown into the exam when the students are nervous enough as it is.

I passed my first time but I very much sympathize with people who don't for reasons like that. They do need to make that exam more equal for everyone.

[RN34TX]

On the other hand Chris at Lucas, you are right. "Traditional" schools are not equal and fair for everyone either!!

[Sheri257]

As for California and licensing, if EC's policies "violated" (I think that was the word used, somewhere up there) California's BON's regs so badly, why did it take 20 or more years to get this ban? Take a look at the tuition costs of the state's schools of nursing and see if there isn't the slightest possibility that they might not want to see their tuition dollars heading to New York? Too many successful, terrific Excelsior College nurses out there for it to be because of poor skills or whatever. It's a big state--did they close down other schools whose graduates aren't all perfectly sterling nurses? Didn't think so.

I agree that California should have looked at EC sooner. My guess is that it was a bureaucractic screwup and, since EC is an unusual program, they probably didn't look at it like they do with all the other schools in the state. You'll see in the board minutes where a bunch of schools report on NCLEX pass rates, program compliance, course changes etc. So, the board probably screwed up and didn't do anything until it was called to their attention.

You seem to be hung up on the tuition issue, but I honestly don't think that was a factor. My school has to routinely deny 20 or more qualified applicants every semester because they can't take them all. And that's after they got a two-year $100,000 grant to take 10 more students in each class. Tuition dollars don't even make a dent in what it costs take more students.

It costs my school about $5000 to take a new student. Whereas the tuition the student pays is only $1,000. At that cost, the school actually loses $4,000 for every extra student they take. That shortfall has to be subsidized with state budget dollars.

So ... I don't see much of a financial incentive there. I don't see how this is a tuition grab, when the state actually loses a lot of money by taking more students. It just doesn't make any sense.

[chris_at_lucas_RN, RN]

Thanks for the feedback, RN34TX..... You are absolutely right. Some people get patients who really ought not to be CPNE patients. I don't know what to think about that, frankly, unless allowances are made for that, but then we jump right back into subjectivity.

I guess it's the luck of the draw, like the rest of life. Doesn't that just suck? My Dad used to tell me, "you pays your nickel and you takes your chance." It was the only time he ever used poor grammar (except for one other joke, which I will not share here. :imbar )

[chris_at_lucas_RN, RN]

lizz wrote: I agree that California should have looked at EC sooner.

You cannot agree, because that is not what was said (written), nor was it the point.

lizz also wrote: Whereas the tuition the student pays is only $1,000.

I have seen much, much higher quotes of students' costs to attend California nursing schools, in published material (not just someone's say-so). When I get the time, if I have the inclination, I'll go look that up and post it.

For now, I really don't care enough..... Plenty of jobs, plenty of other states. I've never had any desire to live in California (even though my family is there), and this is just one more reason, although I could be licensed there, having begun my EC experience early enough. Why go where you are not wanted?