Specializes in Flight Nurse, Pedi CICU, IR, Adult CTICU.
Research is usually 2-3 years old before it is published and available to the public...
You don't have to tell me, but let me post 2-3 year old references and the next post will be an attempt to discredit my position because of the 'age' of the data.
Fortunate for some, they get special dispensation.
Maternity leave is not a function of the healthcare system.
I suppose that is another debate for another thread, but the point I was making is that if my tax dollars were being spent for things like this, as well as for UHC, I would not have a problem with higher taxes.
And anecdotal 'friendships' in foreign countries don't validate health systems.
Then anecdotal 'horror stories' about those same health system don't invalidate them, either.
In any case, you misunderstood my point. I was making the point that people who live in these countries have very different views of their own health system than you do from the outside. I am done with this argument, as my mind is made up, as is yours, and neither of us is going to budge.
we had a meeting at work today about our hospital expanding and opening another ER holding and admissions unit in our hospital, as well as a free standing ER.
i work @ a trauma center with 600 beds. they cannot keep up with the amount of patients coming through the door anymore. the smaller hospitals divert to us, we get the traumas in the area, and the ER is so jam packed of people need primary care stuff that we just have patients all over the place and in the hallways. we are a big inner city facility and serve a large amount of the un and underinsured pts in the community.
my boss also said that the social workers and discharge planners cannot keep up. there are so many MORE patients than ever before coming through with no where to go, no money for medications, no way to keep follow up appointments.... they're out of luck, turning into a repeat ER visit and hospital stay and a poor prognosis in the long run.
my NM said they are spending so much giving out vouchers and keeping people extra days until they are able to place them, the budget for us gets even further decreased (haha!), the hospital gets short staffed, nurses get burnt out, the morale sucks, and patients have worse outcomes. and i agree with her.
people have stopped going to the doctor because they lost their job and their insurance. they have stopped spending money on prescriptions so that they can eat. yes, the problems been around for a long time, but it's getting worse and worse each and everyday in this country.
UHC might help solve part of this problem... as a human being and as a nurse, it hurts me to see these people live the way they do.
Specializes in Flight Nurse, Pedi CICU, IR, Adult CTICU.
Maternity leave is not a function of the healthcare system.
I suppose that is another debate for another thread, but the point I was making is that if my tax dollars were being spent for things like this, as well as for UHC, I would not have a problem with higher taxes.
Some of us would. I don't expect anyone to pay for me to take a year off work to have a baby.
And anecdotal 'friendships' in foreign countries don't validate health systems.
Then anecdotal 'horror stories' about those same health system don't invalidate them, either.
Certainly, but I'm not trying to use anecdotal stories to support my point...which is why
I
pointed out the errancy in using the tactic.
In any case, you misunderstood my point. I was making the point that people who live in these countries have very different views of their own health system than you do from the outside. I am done with this argument, as my mind is made up, as is yours, and neither of us is going to budge.
Sure they have views...so what? The Canadians have their views about the inferiority of the US system as well, but that doesn't seem to stop them from accessing it both individually and from a gov't practice on a daily basis. I misunderstood nothing.
Actually, I have expressed willingness to entertain certain kinds of UHC care and have shared the model here, but like I said before, it went over like a turd on the sidewalk.
I'm just not willing to entertain selective and illogical points used to argue for or against a particular kind of healthcare system.
And anecdotal 'friendships' in foreign countries don't validate health systems. .
Then why do you keep bringing up your own experience with your, apparently, relatively (for you) cheap insurance which provides you an excellent level of care which most people in this country do not have and can not afford? I don't know what type of plan you have, which is apparently cheaper than most things you buy. Surely, you understand that for most people, they are not offered this generous plan. Or are unable to spend more than 700 dollars a month on it.
Actually, I have expressed willingness to entertain certain kinds of UHC care and have shared the model here, but like I said before, it went over like a turd on the sidewalk.
Not necessarily. I also expressed support for the Singaporean system you mentioned. It's not my ideal but it's absolutely better than what we have now.
Specializes in Flight Nurse, Pedi CICU, IR, Adult CTICU.
When I've mentioned my insurance, it's because someone referred to my insurance or made incorrect statements about private insurance. And my insurance doesn't just cover me, it covers thousands of people...maybe millions.
And I said I pay more for my insurance; I have less expensive alternatives available, but I picked (and pay for) a more expensive alternative that meets my needs (kind of doesn't match the 'no choice' finger pointed at private insurance since the choices STARTED at four different plans to choose from).
And it's only cheaper that most ESSENTIAL things that I buy (shelter, food, transportation). And it's not costing me $700/month...around $100...about the same as my high-speed connection+cable bill/month.
So I got one taker on Singapore...any others?
I think Obama was the worst choice we could make, but if he said we were going to implement a 'singaporean system,' I've vote for him in 2012.
People under UHC have much more alternatives than privately insured pts. The government does not pick and choose what they will cover or what they won't on a case by case basis. You do not have to wait for a procedure to be approved first or ask what provider is allowed or covered. things that are not covered are usually cosmetic but if it is medically needed it is covered. The government funds the system but they don't make the administration and care decisions.
This is very incorrect.
If you live in a country where there is socialized medicine, all nurses, physicians, pharmacists (unless they are private)...work for the gov't...that doesn't give them a medical free-for-all.
You don't have to get a surgery approved, but depending on which country you live in, waiting lists for surgeries, even emergent ones are very, very common.
In Great Britain, if a baby is born less than 25 weeks old, they perform no measures to extend that child's life....the doctor can refuse because they are employed by the gov't and the gov't says it will no longer cover this expense.
That doesn't happen here in America.
The gov't will pick and choose which cases it deems to be "survivable". This concept that Americans believe in, that people will just be kept forever on life support...the gov't in countries with socialized medicine, very often, get to make that call...not the individual families.
Even organ donation is something that, in some countries, is automatic unless you opt out...versus opting in.
I agree to we need something to help the working poor, but UHC is not the answer.
You don't have to get a surgery approved, but depending on which country you live in, waiting lists for surgeries, even emergent ones are very, very common.
I'm not going back into waiting lists, I'm quite tired of that discussion yes there are waits but they waiting times are greatly improved and emergency and urgent cases get treated quickly
In Great Britain, if a baby is born less than 25 weeks old, they perform no measures to extend that child's life....the doctor can refuse because they are employed by the gov't and the gov't says it will no longer cover this expense.
Please please show me your evidence, I have worked in the UK healthcare for the past 20 years, in that time I have spent quite a bit of time in PICU and working alongside NICU staff, I have cared for quite a few babies who are less than 25 weeks old, it is a CLINICAL decision not FINANCIAL as to which child gets treated, we open beds over our normal capacity to accomodate these children when the ICU's are full. Please show me the government directive that states we are no longer able to care for children under 25 weeks, I don't believe it exsists
That doesn't happen here in America.
it doesn't happen in the UK either
The gov't will pick and choose which cases it deems to be "survivable". This concept that Americans believe in, that people will just be kept forever on life support...the gov't in countries with socialized medicine, very often, get to make that call...not the individual families.
No the doctors make the call in collaboration with families, this is not dictated by the government, it is clinically motiviated not financially
again, please where is your evidence for your claims
This isn't to mention the fact that in these same countries, it's almost impossible to sue a doctor for malpractice...b/c they are an employee of the government.
I have also personally known of two friends that have had to bring relatives over to the USA to have surgeries performed because their home country, that had socialized medicine, had them on a waiting list that was too long.
Specializes in Critical care, tele, Medical-Surgical.
When I've mentioned my insurance, it's because someone referred to my insurance or made incorrect statements about private insurance. And my insurance doesn't just cover me, it covers thousands of people...maybe millions.
And I said I pay more for my insurance; I have less expensive alternatives available, but I picked (and pay for) a more expensive alternative that meets my needs (kind of doesn't match the 'no choice' finger pointed at private insurance since the choices STARTED at four different plans to choose from).
And it's only cheaper that most ESSENTIAL things that I buy (shelter, food, transportation). And it's not costing me $700/month...around $100...about the same as my high-speed connection+cable bill/month.
So I got one taker on Singapore...any others?
I think Obama was the worst choice we could make, but if he said we were going to implement a 'singaporean system,' I've vote for him in 2012.
XB9S, BSN, MSN, EdD, RN, APN
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