ER nurse getting paramedic

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Hi! Do you think it is helpful for a nurse to get a paramedic or PHRN certification if they work in the ER? Does that training better prepare you for your job?

This is a great post! Thanks!

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My NREMT-P came with an Associates degree, as well as a solid foundation in A&P, pathophysiology, pharmacology, etc. I went through a community college, though. Too bad my medic education seems to be the exception, not the norm ... ?

Kudos for obtaining your degree

Does your state require an Associates degree to be a Paramedic? Even Oregon has loopholes to get around that. If Virginia is still your state I believe the minimun hours of training required is still around 1000 hours.

Some have even sought out a Bachelors program in EMS because they have a goal in mind which might include EMS or not.

Many colleges offer the Associates degree option but not many go through with it. The other factors in the EMS degree involve offering courses that are abbreviated for the Paramedic and are not the equivalent of the A&P, pathophysioloyg or pharmacology required by nursing or other health care professionals. Compare the A&P text book used for many Paramedic programs with one used in a course required for nurses or most of the other allied health professions. Those 2 semesters of college level A&P for nurses may cover more "hours" in the classroom and lab than the entire diadetic portion for some Paramedic programs.

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This has been an interesting debate to watch. While I agree with Traumasurfer that EMS education is pretty lacking, I dont see why there is this need to take the worst case examples, like some medic mill in Texas that allows someone to theoretically get their medic license in 6 months, or one EMT school that lets people get their basic in 3 weeks, and present them as the norm.

Every state sets a minimum amount of hours for each provider level. Each state can be different.

You can stretch out that 110 hour EMT class to last a year by going a couple hours a week just so you can say your EMT class "was a year long".

What is the minimal hours of training required for EMT in your state? Right now without the new NREMT titles it probably still averages around 110 - 120 hours. For this basic course why stretch those few hours out any longer than you have to? CNAs may do their 75 - 150 hours by 40 hours weeks especially if the facililty is requiring them to be in the patient care area the whole time they are training.

Also, when EMS education is still measured in hours of training, that year and a half means very little especially if you are not closer to an Associates degree than you would be with 6 month. The same 1000 hours could be completed in a few months or stretched out over 2 years by going one day a week to class. Regardless, it is still the same 1000 hours and you do not have a degree for your 18 months or two years of time.

You don't have to just look at the medic mills of Texas but the state requirement says it all. 624 hours are all that is required to be a Paramedic in that state. If you look at most of the other states you will find they average between 624 and 1200 hours total. This is not a case of the worst example but rather a statement of the minimal standards across the board in the U.S.

These are exceptions and far from the rule. My EMT course was 290 hours, required 40 hours in an ED, 40 on an ambulance, and had a long list of objectives that had to be completed and signed by a precepter. The Medic course at this same school is a year and a half. These are probably closer to the norm than the medic mills you keep citing. Ive also been on an EMS call to a nursing home where new RNs didnt know how to suction a patient, so obviously nursing education has its shortcomings as well.

It is great that you EMT course added the extra hours which means they may have wanted you to be a better EMT or to charge more if your state doesn't require 290 hours. They could also be preparing for the new credential of AEMT. The EMT-I will be eliminated and you'll be either an AEMT or Paramedic. With 290 hours as a Basic the student may not have that many more "hours" to go to reach Paramedic.

http://www.nremt.org/nremt/downloads/Newsletter_2009.pdf

You can not measure every profession by just one or two skills nor can you say a skill always equals education. The other skills along with their expertise in long term care makes an RN working in a nursing home very valuable. EMS has placed so much emphasis on a couple of skills and counting how many meds are in their box that they freak out when a skill or a med might be removed regardless of all the EBM that shows that med or skill may no longer be appropriate for prehospital (or anywhere) patient care.

A flight RN who has advanced his/her education in critical and gained experienced in that area can easily pick up a skill and also function as a professional. But, someone who just learns a skill without the education is a tech. However, Nursing and EMS are both guilty of functioning at tech levels when emphasis is placed only on skills and not the education behind them.

The other issue for someone being an EMT and an RN, there is a case in New Jersey right now where an RN volunteering as an EMT with Paramedics (higher than EMT) on scene had her EMT cert suspended and the BON was notified for them to follow through for appropriate action if necessary. In many states, if you screw up as an RN or Paramedic, you can still be an EMT but if your screw up bad enough as an EMT, it may affect your RN license. Just because you are working as a low level provider even under the supervision of a Paramedic may not excuse you from your share of the responsibility as either an EMT or as an RN.

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Specializes in EMS, ED, Trauma, CEN, CPEN, TCRN.
Kudos for obtaining your degree

Does your state require an Associates degree to be a Paramedic? Even Oregon has loopholes to get around that. If Virginia is still your state I believe the minimun hours of training required is still around 1000 hours.

Nope, it is not a requirement (I am still in Virginia, for now), but it was my requirement. :D I tend to over-do everything .... LOL

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Nope, it is not a requirement (I am still in Virginia, for now), but it was my requirement. :D I tend to over-do everything .... LOL

Definitely nothing wrong with that. In fact, that is the easiest way for a profession to advance when its own members see a need for more education. We've seen it for all the other professions right up to DPT for Physical Therapy. More RNs are also getting BSNs even though it is not mandatory for entry. EMS just hasn't caught on to the need for more education and you can't really say it is because of the pay because there are Paramedics who make more and have better benefits, especially for retirement, than some RNs.

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EMS just hasn't caught on to the need for more education and you can't really say it is because of the pay because there are Paramedics who make more and have better benefits, especially for retirement, than some RNs.

You'd have to agree that what you're saying is largely the exception and not the rule.

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You'd have to agree that what you're saying is largely the exception and not the rule.

For private companies maybe but in the states I am familiar with EMS is largely fire based, municipal or county. The retirement package is pretty decent and so is the pay.

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For private companies maybe but in the states I am familiar with EMS is largely fire based, municipal or county. The retirement package is pretty decent and so is the pay.

Sure, in a government EMS agency, fire or not, the retirement would be better because of a pension set up. Police and fire retirement in Arkansas is 28 years. With a 401k you'd be on your own. I don't think any of the salaries for the anyone under captain or assistant chief, depending on the size of the populace, would be better though. Just my observations though.

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Specializes in Trauma/ED.

"Hi! Do you think it is helpful for a nurse to get a paramedic or PHRN certification if they work in the ER? Does that training better prepare you for your job?"

Just to remind you folks what the OP asked...did we answer it?

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"Hi! Do you think it is helpful for a nurse to get a paramedic or PHRN certification if they work in the ER? Does that training better prepare you for your job?"

Just to remind you folks what the OP asked...did we answer it?

I don't feel like the only helpfulness would simply be seeing what the patient goes through (lol) before arriving at the ER.

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Specializes in EMS, ED, Trauma, CEN, CPEN, TCRN.
Just to remind you folks what the OP asked...did we answer it?

LOL ... yeah, I think so ... like 4 pages ago, before we meandered ... apologies to the OP! I have found that being a medic makes me a better ED nurse, and vice-versa. There's something to be said for having experience with patients on both sides of the ED doors.

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Omit "don't" from my previous reply. I switched trains of thought and forgot to delete it.

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We sometimes laugh at the "burgers and fries to saving lives" saying in EMS since many EMS providers are very young with not much work experience except for maybe fast food. However, what we have found is those who have customer service experience such as in a burger place serving over 200 customers a shift can be exceptional in communication, manners and just overall presentation of themselves in public with being more at ease. Of course there are exceptions. But I think any job that gives you a chance to mature and perfect even just people skills can be an asset especially if your clinicals in school are less than adequate. However, someone with previous work experience and people skills can sometimes find a way to make their clinical experience even more worthwhile.

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