ER nurse getting paramedic

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Hi! Do you think it is helpful for a nurse to get a paramedic or PHRN certification if they work in the ER? Does that training better prepare you for your job?

but you've done a swell job of bashing EMS.

There is a difference between bashing EMS such as saying "EMS sucks" and pointing out the flaws that has kept EMS from becoming a true health care profession which could be recognized by CMS.

I'd love for some six month paramedic mills to hit Arkansas. We need them.

Those like you who still want more medic mills to mass produce minimally educated and trained warm bodies have not done EMS any favors. Your statement bashes any serious Paramedics who have worked toward a degree and enhancing the education for EMS providers.

You'll also have to agree that the nursing school doesn't immediately prepare someone for EMS.

You need to know the difference between establishing an education base and just trade school training. The Paramedic is now trained trade or tech school style exiting with just the minimum skills and training to accomplish a few tasks in emergent situations with the use of carefully written and usually very cautious protocols. Nursing has several general and science prerequisites to prepare them for a broad overview of a very vast profession. There is no way every specialty in nursing could be covered in 2, 4, 6 or even 8 years of education and training. But, the foundation is there for the nurse to choose a path and pursue whatever requirements for a specialty. You could also look at the countries which have nurse led EMS systems to see how seriously they take their education and training. Six month wonders wouldn't even qualify to drive an ambulance in these countries.

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There is a difference between bashing EMS such as saying "EMS sucks" and pointing out the flaws that has kept EMS from becoming a true health care profession which could be recognized by CMS.

Those like you who still want more medic mills to mass produce minimally educated and trained warm bodies have not done EMS any favors. Your statement bashes any serious Paramedics who have worked toward a degree and enhancing the education for EMS providers.

You need to know the difference between establishing an education base and just trade school training. The Paramedic is now trained trade or tech school style exiting with just the minimum skills and training to accomplish a few tasks in emergent situations with the use of carefully written and usually very cautious protocols. Nursing has several general and science prerequisites to prepare them for a broad overview of a very vast profession. There is no way every specialty in nursing could be covered in 2, 4, 6 or even 8 years of education and training. But, the foundation is there for the nurse to choose a path and pursue whatever requirements for a specialty. You could also look at the countries which have nurse led EMS systems to see how seriously they take their education and training. Six month wonders wouldn't even qualify to drive an ambulance in these countries.

I fully agree that the system is dysfunctional, but people are getting ambulances and being taken to the hospital. That means at least something is being done right. With regards to the paramedic mills we actually do need them here. When I was in paramedic school in south Arkansas one of the programs in northwest Arkansas was considering closing down because they never had enough students. There were four others besides me in my program. I fully realize that a minimally trained medic isn't the best medic, but at least there's someone out there doing the job. That has absolutely nothing to do with enhancement, but it's got everything to do with providing basic emergency services to people that need it. To instantly do everything you'd like to do to EMS would obliterate the system here because there aren't enough people doing it.

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Come on Traumasurfer, you have turned this into a EMT/Paramedic bash! Grow up and stick to the topic and quite inciting people!

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Come on Traumasurfer, you have turned this into a EMT/Paramedic bash! Grow up and stick to the topic and quite inciting people!

Bashing EMS? Inciting people? I bet you are not even in EMS nor have you ever been to understand anything in my posts. You probably could care less if EMS is a profession or not. It might just be a hobby to you. For that I would say you would be the one bashing my profession by mocking the seriousness of my posts. Thanks for not giving a crap about EMS providers who do care if EMS gets recognized someday as a profession and who don't appreciate those like ImThatGuy advocating for more medic mills in this country.

I actually wish I could incite more who claim to be in EMS and who claim to be so proud of EMS as a profession. I would like some to stop making excuses or continue to pretend that EMS is so perfect and stop with advocating for more medic mills and shortcuts which have led EMS to nohere.

I respect that this is a nursing forum and I have stated I have the utmost respect for nursing. But, I would also like you to have a little respect for EMS and support its advancement. For some of us EMS is not just a hobby or an extra cert but in reality we know it is just that by the standards today. But, I also believe an RN is just as qualified to take the necessary training and education to be an EMS provider and should have a credential that respects their own profession rather than get a cert in a profession that is still struggling with an identity crisis.

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No one here suggested that EMS was perfect. That's something your own mind interpreted. Additionally, I'm glad you acknowledge now the point I was trying to make regarding nurses taking on the role of EMS providers. Yes, they can do it but, as you stated they need "to take the necessary training and education to be an EMS provider." That's not at all impossible, yet itis something the RN would hane to do.

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No one here suggested that EMS was perfect. That's something your own mind interpreted. Additionally, I'm glad you acknowledge now the point I was trying to make regarding nurses taking on the role of EMS providers.

Do not lump me into the bash the nursing education basket. You have put down the RN's education in almost every post I have debated you on previously and in this thread I have called you out again for failing to recognize how the nursing education has provided them with a foundation to specialize.

You still hang on to the medic mill for EMS and believe it is good enough.

That has absolutely nothing to do with enhancement, but it's got everything to do with providing basic emergency services to people that need it.

Did you ever think that the people in your area might deserve more than basic emergency services or BLS? Or, Paramedics acting not much more than EMT-B with just providing an expensive taxi. ALS with with well educated and trained Paramedic (or nurses) is something a community and the U.S. should strive for.

We have debated before and have not been in agreement about education or advancement for U.S. EMS. You have moved on and probably was not in EMS long enough to see where it has been and where it needs to go.

The education to be a health care provider of any type should be about providing quality care to the patient and not just for the convenience or ego of the provider.

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Traumasurfer, I was an EMT-B, then an ER nurse at a Level 1 trauma center, then a Paramedic. I just recently moved and had to resign as the Nursing Director of an extreme sports facility and flew someone out every few weeks for ruptured spleens, head injuries and multiple trauma.

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Do not lump me into the bash the nursing education basket. You have put down the RN's education in almost every post I have debated you on previously and in this thread I have called you out again for failing to recognize how the nursing education has provided them with a foundation to specialize.

You still hang on to the medic mill for EMS and believe it is good enough.

Did you ever think that the people in your area might deserve more than basic emergency services or BLS? Or, Paramedics acting not much more than EMT-B with just providing an expensive taxi. ALS with with well educated and trained Paramedic (or nurses) is something a community and the U.S. should strive for.

We have debated before and have not been in agreement about education or advancement for U.S. EMS. You have moved on and probably was not in EMS long enough to see where it has been and where it needs to go.

The education to be a health care provider of any type should be about providing quality care to the patient and not just for the convenience or ego of the provider.

We seriously need more to do in life. I'm not a fan of nursing education. I'll go on the record as saying that. I've made that clear. I don't think anyone on this forum thinks nursing education is really super.

I look at it like this...a for a business to do well, improve, and properly serve its customers it needs an array of trained workers. EMS is the same. We just don't have enough trained workers so we're stagnant and not improving. Until we get people to do the job and run the business things won't get better, but at least we've got the minimum to get the job done. I agree. You should always strive for excellence, but sometimes you have to just get the job done. I know this screams to you that I'm suggesting we provide minimal care, but what I'm actually saying is you've got to get THE job done before you can ever worry about improving it. Is a medic mill good enough? Yes, but only until you've got enough paramedics out there doing the job. Before we start requiring associate's degrees or higher (which would be great don't get me wrong) you've got to have a workforce that's capable of doing the job with just the community college certificate. For more education they'll want a higher salary, and that's not happening this decade. Arkansas has for a long time been at least a decade behind the states with progressive EMS mindsets. I don't know where you live nor care. I've merely been stating things from my perspective in here.

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This has been an interesting debate to watch. While I agree with Traumasurfer that EMS education is pretty lacking, I dont see why there is this need to take the worst case examples, like some medic mill in Texas that allows someone to theoretically get their medic license in 6 months, or one EMT school that lets people get their basic in 3 weeks, and present them as the norm.

These are exceptions and far from the rule. My EMT course was 290 hours, required 40 hours in an ED, 40 on an ambulance, and had a long list of objectives that had to be completed and signed by a precepter. The Medic course at this same school is a year and a half. These are probably closer to the norm than the medic mills you keep citing. Ive also been on an EMS call to a nursing home where new RNs didnt know how to suction a patient, so obviously nursing education has its shortcomings as well.

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Specializes in EMS, ED, Trauma, CEN, CPEN, TCRN.

My NREMT-P came with an Associates degree, as well as a solid foundation in A&P, pathophysiology, pharmacology, etc. I went through a community college, though. Too bad my medic education seems to be the exception, not the norm ... ?

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That's the same way mine was. All of them in Arkansas offer the associate's option.

Congrats on the Army, Lunah!

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Specializes in EMS, ED, Trauma, CEN, CPEN, TCRN.
Congrats on the Army, Lunah!

Thanks! Very excited to have been selected -- it's super-competitive right now. My recruiter thinks my experience as a medic might also have given me an edge.

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