Camera phones in the ER

[LeahJet]

The other day, while in triage, I was confronted by a woman. I had triaged her earlier....she had an abscess that probably needed I&D, therefore she needed a room in the area of our ED where we put our lacs and abscesses. I had informed her at triage that we did not have any rooms open and told her I would call her back when one was available.

In the meantime, she saw me triage a couple of cough/backs pains to the Fast Track. This was the source of her disgruntlement.

As she verbally attacked me and called me a "liar"....I tried in vain to explain why she needed a special room and why the others were called back ahead of her. (I can understand her initial confusion) But the woman was so busy calling me names...she refused to listen.

Usually I don't argue.

This time, the point was so simple.... I just knew I could make her understand.

Silly me.

ANYway..... I looked over this woman's shoulder and I see her 15-16 year old son taking my picture with his phone. I tell him "You do NOT have my permission to take my picture" and then I summon security who had been lurking in the shadows until this point. The security officer asks the young man, "did you take her picture?" Well, duh.....GUESS what the guy says?

"no"

The security guy considered the case closed I guess because he then goes back to his corner.

There are soooo many picture/video phones out there. I know we have policies about pts privacy and rights....but what about OURS? I felt somewhat violated and even perceived a veiled threat in there.

Just wondering if any of you...ER or elsewhere in the hospital... have had a simular situation and what your hospital/security does about it.

[StLukesLPN]

A daughter of a ltc resident took pictures of her mothers bm because she felt her mom was getting too much mom. She made the pictures as big as she could for me but they weren't very clear. The daughter was present every day so I just asked her before giving a laxative. If she had seen a bm I didnt give mom. Certainly not when the daughter was present.

[rgroyer1RNBSN, BSN, RN]

This thread is getting off track. No personal attacks, please. Just stick to the topic.

As for the OP I'd be extermely insulted if someone went around taking pictures of me without my permission. In most places it's not illegal, though.

But a hospital can and should have a policy against having video or audio recording equipment if, for nothing else HIPAA reasons.

Yes exactley, Id be ******!

[KckStrt]

We, the hospital I work in, do have policies against taking pictures in our ED or the hospital in general. If you take my picture without my permission, watch out. I wont be pushed around by anyone. It's time nurses stand up for themselves and stop all this subservient crap.:bowingpur

People have no right to push us around and treat us like their personal handmaiden. In GA if someone throws stool at you, or urine, did you know that it is assault.

So take my picture at 3am and see how well that goes over. Our secruity is the greatest, besides, I am the pretty nurse and don't want my face splattered all over the internet!!!

[Hagabel]

LOL. You guys are so funny. I just came off a shift in the ER followed by a few hrs in the ICU and I needed a good laugh.(not at the topic but your sense of humor)

I would be a little ticked off if someone took my pic also. I had a pt and her daughter(9) came into triage and her daughter flips open her cellphone as I am trying to triage her Mum. I asked her to turn it off immediately and she looked at me and stated "I'm talking". !!!!!

Luckily Mum responded appropriately before I could!!

I love the ER sometimes!!! Now I know my place in society.

:bowingpur:nono: :wink2:

[justme1972]

I have a feeling that considering nurses are an employee of the hospital, providing care in which the public is entitled to know whether they have a valid license or not in their field, I don't consider this an invasion of privacy.

I wouldn't stress over a g-rated picture.

In my area, we have RN's with their first and last names on billboards for advertisements.

[Altra, BSN, RN]

I have a feeling that considering nurses are an employee of the hospital, providing care in which the public is entitled to know whether they have a valid license or not in their field, I don't consider this an invasion of privacy.

How is this different from licensed CPAs who are employed by an accounting firm, licensed MDs employed by a private practice, licensed attorneys employed by a law firm, etc.?

I'm not following your logic. But if you are doing business at any of these examples I've listed above and take a picture of one of these professionals without their permission and try to explain that because they're licensed, it's not an invasion of privacy ... I want to be a fly on the wall so I can watch what happens next.

[justme1972]

How is this different from licensed CPAs who are employed by an accounting firm, licensed MDs employed by a private practice, licensed attorneys employed by a law firm, etc.?

I'm not following your logic. But if you are doing business at any of these examples I've listed above and take a picture of one of these professionals without their permission and try to explain that because they're licensed, it's not an invasion of privacy ... I want to be a fly on the wall so I can watch what happens next.

Think of it this way....what is more damaging:

1. Someone having a picture of you and having no idea of who you are.

2. Having your first and last name.

A picture doesn't do much good if you don't know the person's name. Even if they do know both....so what?

To me, that's flipping out over nothing. You are entitled to your privacy when you are in your home, the bathroom, in the dressing room of a clothing store...but when you are out in public, especially when you are working as a nurse in a hospital and working directly with the public...what makes you think you are entitled to privacy?

Everywhere you drive, there are cameras...when you go to the ATM, there are cameras....cameras are all over the hosptal and at the end of the day....you really have NO IDEA Of who views them at the end of the day.

So what if someone snapped your picture? What are they going to do?

The difference in the other professions, is that the client CHOOSES to see the attorney's, doctors, CPA's, etc...a nurse that works in the ER...you get what you get and you don't have any choice.

The above professions also have the choice, because they are ALL self-employed, of choosing NOT to service clients that engage in offensive behavior....that is the difference.

[JoeDEDRN]

I am thinking if you bought your concerns to administration, but spun it to say you have concerns over a patient taking photos of other patients, might perk up their little HIPPA ears. That would be my main concern anyway.

[ozinurse]

This is a very interesting topic.

Obviously, as has been discussed, it is not illegal to take someones photo without permission. and as someone mentioned it would be impossible to stop the people who really want to take photos. Like trying to stop people taking photos/videos at a concert.

It creates a bit of an environment of, 'Big Brother' is always watching, which means that you are always on the defensive (which is frustrating and exhausting). All you can do is deliver the best care you can and maintain your integrity. How can anyone fault that?

Intimdation, by taking the photo, is an obvious issue. This should be dealt with like any form of intimidation; Stay calm, usually people are after a grand response - don't give them the satisfaction. Set boundaries - if you think it is intimidation, point out that is you understanding of the situation and tha you don't appreciate it, this might be your opportunity to ask them to remove the photo, they may or may not but you probably can't do that much more. Set the rules - this is helped with a supportive department or institutional policy and security to back you up - let them know that the individual will be asked to leave if the behaviour persists. (Our department has a huge sign in the waiting room stating that aggressive behaviour will not be tolerated).

Then again, maybe the kid thought you were hot:redpinkhe. He may have thought with his mothers behaviour, the likelyhood of getting a second glimpse of you was pretty slim.

[Toquay]

After reading that there is not really any recourse for perhaps the nurse, what about the patients we are there to protect? What would happen if the same kid snapped a pic of a hallway pt with a disheveled gown? Or a confused pt that keeps walking out of their room nude? So many opportunities for a shutterbug to take advantage of in a hospital.

Toq

I guess deep down we all know who would be held accountable for such a violation.... The nurse.

[northshore08]

:twocents:Yup, definitely is an issue with potential pics of other patients (or maybe the ER manager, or the doc on duty, etc, etc.)

"Well, ****, if he was willing to take a picture of me in the busy waiting area, don't you think he might just snap one of our patients or even one of you while you are working, too?"

Maybe that same comment to several of the "higher-ups" could fix your problem. Until then, make sure you comb your hair.....

[OICU2]

It is illegal to audio/video tape in any "high privacy" area without written permission/consent. There are federal Hippa laws to this effect and the AMA also has policies concerning this. I would consider hospitals, drs offices, LTC facilities, etc... to be "high privacy" areas.