Eliminating LPNs - are hospitals doing this?

[kalaith]

Hello All,

My mother is an LPN at a major women's and children's medical center in Honolulu. Recently the hospital announced that it may eliminate the LPN position throughout the hopsital in the next 12 months. My understanding is that they will supplement this loss by hiring additional CNAs.

My question to you all is if you have any experience with this. Do you work at a hospital that has done this? Was it a good choice? Was it a bad choice? And what's your personal opinion? Do you think it's a good idea or a bad idea?

While I'm certainly biased for my mother's position, I am honestly curious what others in the field think of this major decision.

Thanks for your time. :)

[Nurse89]

Yes, it is too bad that ppl become inflamed, but ppl are ppl. The thread went from one thing to a whole opposite pole so I guess it's expected. I am sorry you were looked down upon when you were an LPN working in a hospital.

That is not everyone's case... Some others actually look up to the LPN's.. Sorry that was not your case.

I have posted 3 times to this post (today only) and those will be my last replies lol

This thread has become ridiculous, IMO

[ainz]

The original post talked about a hospital's decision to eliminate LPN positions. There are many reasons that a hospital would consider doing this.

It is always my hope that we can engage in intelligent dialogue to understand things, learn things, share experiences, share different points of view as mature people. I suppose at times that is difficult.

I do not "look down" on anyone, LPNs, nursing assistants, ADNs, no one. I do not have a general view that all people who are LPNs are inferior in some way.

The point is this, for the profession of nursing to advance we must clearly define the one path of education to become a "nurse." There is no judgment of others in this statement.

This is related to the original post in that hospital leaders must consider scopes of practice, costs of various skill mixes, and what type of skill mix they can get the most from. Evidently this hospital felt that by having all RNs there would be no limitations on the nurses' scope in terms of LPN or RN. It is not a personal issue but an issue of what kind of services a nurse can provide.

[fergus51]

Have you all ever noticed that everyone thinks the level they are at is what should be the minimum to become a nurse?

[azgirl]

Fergus that is so true.

[pickledpepperRN]

It is true for many.

I was a CNA, LVN, ADN, and now a BSN. Grad school- did not finish. Took course work and learned a lot that could have led to a CNS, but I quit.

The minimum level is what qualifies a person to be licensed as a nurse. An LV/PN IS a licensed nurse.

A registered nurse IS a nurse.

The ANA and others have said entry level should be the BSN. Nothing wrong with that except there are less programs now for entry level BSN students. (example the program i attended required an RN license for admission).

The other obsticle is money. How can a person be a good parent, work to support a family, AND go to school?

I did but only after my kids were in highschool.

To me a hospital is making a terrible error if they lay off LVN/LPNs rather than assist them to become RNs.

Those who want to remain LPNs contribute valuable care to patients. They should be assistive to the RN not assigned total patient care.

Replacing LPNs with unlicensed personnel is harmful tp patients.

The public needs to know that.

[Brownms46]

Originally posted by ainz

The original post talked about a hospital's decision to eliminate LPN positions. There are many reasons that a hospital would consider doing this.

It is always my hope that we can engage in intelligent dialogue to understand things, learn things, share experiences, share different points of view as mature people. I suppose at times that is difficult.

I do not "look down" on anyone, LPNs, nursing assistants, ADNs, no one. I do not have a general view that all people who are LPNs are inferior in some way.

The point is this, for the profession of nursing to advance we must clearly define the one path of education to become a "nurse." There is no judgment of others in this statement.

This is related to the original post in that hospital leaders must consider scopes of practice, costs of various skill mixes, and what type of skill mix they can get the most from. Evidently this hospital felt that by having all RNs there would be no limitations on the nurses' scope in terms of LPN or RN. It is not a personal issue but an issue of what kind of services a nurse can provide.

Good post! I do think it would best for this profession to decide once and for all, what is and isn't the entry level for nursing. Then once done make that the law of the land. But I also feel there should be some assistance given to those who entered in other levels, to obtain the then current entry level.

This would not only stop the PTB from playing one group against the other, and states from having differing policies on who can do what, and who can't. It would save a whole lot of the current confusion, and maybe even help decrease the so-called " nursing shortage"

Why keep throwing aside knowledgeable people with experience, and seeking to bring in new inexperience people??? Makes no sense to me at all! I thnk those who have proved they're an asset to nursing, should be given the opportnity to continue in their positions, and not cast aside when the money pockets decide nursing is costing too much. Then maybe we can all fight together for nursing in a concerted voice, without all the class in fighting that continues to hinder our progress.

[BBFRN, BSN, PhD]

Originally posted by ainz

The original post talked about a hospital's decision to eliminate LPN positions. There are many reasons that a hospital would consider doing this.

It is always my hope that we can engage in intelligent dialogue to understand things, learn things, share experiences, share different points of view as mature people. I suppose at times that is difficult.

I do not "look down" on anyone, LPNs, nursing assistants, ADNs, no one. I do not have a general view that all people who are LPNs are inferior in some way.

The point is this, for the profession of nursing to advance we must clearly define the one path of education to become a "nurse." There is no judgment of others in this statement.

Ainz, I think you have tried really hard to make your point without being inflammatory. I'm not saying I agree with you, but I can tell you're trying to express your point as nicely as possible.

[ainz]

Thank you lgflamini.

When this issue comes up it is always difficult. Anyone who pursues some degree of education has to sacrifice something, work hard, and go through the difficulties of being a student. It is especially difficult when you have a family, children, financial obligations, etc, I know because I went through all of this going back to school.

After working hard to achieve something, people are proud of their achievement and they should be. I know many and have worked with many LPNs that give excellent care. People that choose to be LPNs are no more or less than anyone else, it is just a choice they made, it does not mean they are not capable of becoming an RN or whatever else they choose to pursue.

Should the powers that be in nursing decide that the BSN becomes the entry level the question of what to do with all of the current experienced nurses must be solved. I suppose nurses would be grandfathered in to some degree or assisted to obtain the BSN, that would certainly be my suggestion. I also think that a program similar to the ADN or LPN or some combination should be preserved as technical workers that would assist the BSN nurse. I think this would be needed.

I just think we need to remedy this situation so that everyone knows what to expect and what is required to be in nursing. Then people can make their choices and prepare to accomplish whatever goals they set for themselves and the question of LPN or ADN or BSN is settled once and for all.

I have stated my opinion and I am done with this thread. I apologize if I offend anyone but I can't apologize for what I think is best for the profession of nursing.

[pickledpepperRN]

I agree. The biggest problem is the 'powers that be' need to provide the slots in BSN programs.

In the 1990s too many programs were eliminated. At UCLA for instance.

[sbic56, BSN, RN]

Nurse89

Please don't be sorry about my being looked down on! It was those in management that "looked down". My peers were never that way. Anyway, that was not a factor that bothered me...I just wanted to keep on working!

[Meds Queen]

Here in Cleveland some hospitals have opted to eliminate or downsize the amount of clinically trained and state licensed LPN's . Care has suffered & RN's are stressed.

CNA's do NOT have the 1200 hours of Clinical Practice that LPN's do and they did not pass a comprehensive state board test for licensure to practice nursing.

I wish the hospital administrations instead of eliminating the LPN would be willing to PAY for their RN education with the agreement of retention for 2 or 3 years. Help your staff and the staff will help you.

[mattsmom81]

Only the laws limit hospitals in their practice of staffing with the cheapest help they can get away with.

The laws...plus nurses with the backbone to say I'm not going to supervise the care of this many patients without getting more nurses here with me.