Eating your young

[abq rn]

the number one complaint i get from both current and former nursing students is that the instructors "eat their young":o . instructors are often described as out of touch, unfair and often unstable. if you go over to the student forums and read some of the things that are being written about you as a group you might be shocked. everyone i have met has a horror story about at least one instructor during nursing school:devil: . why is no one addressing this? i understand that there is a shortage of instructors in nursing schools but does this mean we should accept substandard and occasionally psychotic behavior? i know that patient safety is number one, but... how are you teaching people to be nurses if anyone who stands out is singled out and persecuted? i have been told that the best way to get through nursing school is to say nothing and be as invisible as possible. i have been told this over and over again by graduates across the country. anyone who stands out is terrorized by the instructors and is often driven out of the program. what is the point of this? can anyone give me a legitimate reason for this recurrent behavior?

[happylife]

I just noticed I left the r out of instructor,Please forgive me. I don't like to type

[sirI, MSN, APRN, NP]

On behalf of all instructors everywhere, I thank you, happylife. Such kind words you spoke. Bless you and bless your instructor for seeing the potential in you.

[happylife]

Your Welcome siri

Have a wonderful vacation, no one deserves a vacation more than an instructor !!!!

[JBudd, MSN]

I haven't started actually nursing courses yet so i cant say for sure. But it is scary some of the posts i see on here about their nursing instructors. I even heard that at the school i am going to that if they don't like you then you fail and it scares me so much. I already decided that i am gonna be quiet and not stand out as much s possible. But that may not work for me as i am for 1- Male 2- 6'4 so I'm hard to miss 3- I love to ask questions, but since i hear all these horror stories i decided if i don't know something ill try my best to figure it out myself and not bother the instructor. I'm not saying that this is true that they do "eat there young" but i do see alot of stories about such things and its scary. Should i be prepared to be torn and ripped to shred's by my instructor.

There are also lots of stories about just about any subject here. Somehow, only the most dramatic, one sided and emotional ones get remembered. If you go into a program expecting to be shredded by an instructor, then ambiguous statements may come across as an attack when it wasn't. Attitudes truly do affect how you hear things. Please, please do not think you have to figure everything out for yourself, because as a student you just don't have the experience needed ....... ask! The best students know they don't know and ask lots of questions, and get a lot more experience and opportunities that way.

Someone here mentioned sueing over hot coffee, another example of how stories get distorted. Yes, the woman at McDonalds should have known the coffee was hot. But when was the last time you had to have multiple skin grafts from a spill? That is why she got the money, to pay for the extensive surgeries and grafts. No way a customer should expect a cup of coffee to be so hot it is potentially lethal. Yet, all anyone hears is, she should have known it was hot!

Same thing with instructors, you should know they will be tough, because when you graduate, the school is putting its stamp of approval on your level of ability to care for the public. Its a huge responsibility. Toughness does not equal meaness, vindictiveness or sadism.

[catcoon]

I have read this entire thread and am impressed by the thoughts of the nurse educators and replies of those currently practicing nurses. I am an RN-MSN Nurse Educator student in my second semester. I recall in my ADN classes one instructor that was tougher on me than the other students in our clinical group. I, too, did mega care plans (not copying from anyone else's as did my classmates), did med lists out the wazoo, did the best patient care I could (I had been a CNA for two years, no one else in my group had any type of medical experience). She made me try harder, and made me care more about my patient's than I thought possible. She made me face my sense of perfectionism and "caught me on it." I am a better nurse because of her. I also had an instructor who has become a mentor to me and encouraged me on my path to fulfilling my goal of becoming a nursing instructor.

Each day as a nurse I find out more about myself and how I am able to help patient's help themselves, to help them become more informed healthcare consumers, to help them become proactive in their care, to learn the positives of health promotion.

I am grateful to the instructors that helped me in my education, not just in the nursing program, but in the other classes I have taken as well.

I can't recall who said it, but when I was a secondary education major for a BA degree, one of my instructors said, "We don't teach how we were taught to teach, we teach the way we were taught."

I have found this true in every area of my life, not only in nursing, but in my life in general. We learn from our parents who are our first teachers, be it in a good way :) or in a bad abusive way :smackingf . Through all of our experiences we are who we are today because of those who have taught us.

Thanks to all of you, good and bad.

Cathi

[RN/MSN/JD]

Hi ABQGRANT.

By saying "everyone" you have met has a horror story about a nursing instructor is hereby proven untrue, because now you have met me online, and all my nursing instructors were and still are my greatest mentors and examples. They cared about me more than many nurse managers and coworkers.

Oddly, I can reword your post and say that there are some fairly "substandard" and "psychotic" nursing students out there... (lol) But that does not mean every student I meet is out to "eat the elderly"...

I certainly have no personal intention to "eat" my young, but I do sincerely want them to put forth their best effort and learn to use critical thinking skills. I want to know that the patients who are cared for by my students and former students will have no reason to feel they have received substandard care because their nurse did not apply their best effort to learn while in nursing school. Being hard on a student (grading, counseling, disciplining) for substandard work is not the same as instructors eating their young.

Out of curiosity, are you a nursing instructor? Whether or not you are, if you are a nursing leader in any field, including education, then you have probably had some training in drilling down to the core of the problem; and not just listening to and passing along gossip from those who are disgruntled or who have a bad attitude. And you probably already know that accurate documentation is a must when bringing any problem to the attention of others and truly seeking for solutions. (Ah, don't we nurses love documentation?) Your allegations do not have any sort of documentation, and your words make it sound like no one across the country is getting a decent nursing education.

For instance, what exactly do you mean by "anyone who stands out is singled out and persecuted"? I have many students who stand out, and they shine like morning stars! I am so proud of them! Yes, I single them out; no, I do not persecute them. Their behaviors are compliant with rules, their study habits are obviously well-honed, their grades reflect their learning, and their patient care decisions show outstanding critical thinking.

Can you provide me with legitimate documentation that these outrageous behaviors by instructors are taking place? (documentation should include names, dates, situations.) How about doing a formal nursing study by conducting a survey of graduates from nursing schools across the country. You could ask a random 5% from every graduating class for the last 10 years from every school, including diploma programs, universities, and private schools. Maybe you could ask the graduates some qualitative questions like, "In what way do you feel your nursing instructors ate their young? List each instructor individually and give specific examples. Did your instructors ever teach you anything worth learning? List each instructor and give specific examples." Perhaps you could look at the instructor evaluations that the institutions themselves require from every course. Does the institution base its hiring / rehiring practices on these evaluations? Is there remediation when a teacher is doing substandard work? Is the institution accredited? Does the state Board of Nursing have any say in the development of the curricula of the various programs in the state to assure it is current? Does the school answer to any state legislation or to the Board of Nursing for its outcomes? What is the NCLEX pass rate of the school?

I feel a study like that would be worth my attention. However, information gathered from a casual glance at a student nursing forum will not yield valid data. (Can you tell me why it will not yield valid data?)

Excellent Post~

[RN/MSN/JD]

There are also lots of stories about just about any subject here. Somehow, only the most dramatic, one sided and emotional ones get remembered. If you go into a program expecting to be shredded by an instructor, then ambiguous statements may come across as an attack when it wasn't. Attitudes truly do affect how you hear things. Please, please do not think you have to figure everything out for yourself, because as a student you just don't have the experience needed ....... ask! The best students know they don't know and ask lots of questions, and get a lot more experience and opportunities that way.

Someone here mentioned sueing over hot coffee, another example of how stories get distorted. Yes, the woman at McDonalds should have known the coffee was hot. But when was the last time you had to have multiple skin grafts from a spill? That is why she got the money, to pay for the extensive surgeries and grafts. No way a customer should expect a cup of coffee to be so hot it is potentially lethal. Yet, all anyone hears is, she should have known it was hot!

Same thing with instructors, you should know they will be tough, because when you graduate, the school is putting its stamp of approval on your level of ability to care for the public. Its a huge responsibility. Toughness does not equal meaness, vindictiveness or sadism.

Excellent Post~

[RN/MSN/JD]

One of the things I looked @ was ANA membership vs. AMA membership and within the comparison of the 2, the ANA was much more exclusive in that the AMA offered membership to students and residents (an auxiliary form), retired physicians and to doctors of both osteopathy and medicine, whereas the ANA offers membership only to RNs (excluding the vocational and student nurses).

You are wrong about this. Student nurses can join their state nursing organizations and by default are members of ANA.

[Kelly_the_Great]

You are wrong about this. Student nurses can join their state nursing organizations and by default are members of ANA.

Hey RN/MSN/JD,

You are right! They have made this change (which is wonderful :) and a move in the right direction), it was not an option when my paper was completed though.

I only recently discovered this change, myself, and totally forgot about the post here to correct.

Thanks for the update...:wink2:

[smk1, LPN]

I am a second quarter RN student and Most of my instructors were nice, competent and professional during my albeit limited experience. I did meet one clinical instructor during finals week, who completely shocked me with the rudeness and superior attitude and general lack of professionalism displayed. I smiled and sucked up because i have too, but later found out that several others were shocked as well, by her words and tone of voice. Making rude comments and snatching supplies from a students should never be a part of the learning process. We probably should have filed a complaint, but I would rather wait and continue building up my reputation with the instructors and staff in my program, then butt heads with an instructor over things that won't really matter in the long run and jeopardize my chances of becoming a nurse. I also am not going to let one bad apple ruin my view of the 6 or 7 others that were professional and helpful.