Does Methadone really help prevent relapse?

[sharona97]

I wasn't sure where to post this question, so don't mean to step on any toes.

I have civally committed my son recently for depression, suicide attempt #2 and my new found awarness of his heavy heroin use.

I am concerned that Methadone may preempt relapse. He has chronic pain from a motorcycle accident 10 years ago. His addiction started with pain meds and then esclated to heroin.

His feedback to me is that on low doses of Methadone he can keep a quality of life that would be better for him. I don't know much about long-term use of Methadone if there is such a thing.

I'm just happy to have found him "barely" alive, and took him straight to the hospital.

Any helpful information concerning how Methadone works would be appreciated. How is a person weaned off of this?

Thanks,

Sharona:cry:

[jackstem]

Ahhhhhh Tweety

(((((((((((Tweety))))))))))

If you were here or I was there I'd be giving you a great big hug.

Your insight and positive messages mean so much to me Tweety. I think you know what I mean. Life gives us a bad rap at times, but it not for the goodness that comes out of adversity life would seem meaningless.

I will let D know about your words of wisdom.

Sharona

I agree Tweety! It's taken me the better part of 13 years to get things in order. I don't say that to be discouraging. If I had known it was going to take that long, I most likely wouldn't be here right now. But the philosophy of "One Day at a Time" makes it possible and much less discouraging. After all, how does an Eskimo eat a whale? One bite at a time!"

Another thing about consequences. Being "rescued" from consequences prevents us from learning from them. In reading research about addiction, they are learning so much about the process of learning. The prefrontal cortex of the brain is where our ability to make judgments about the wisdom of do something or not takes place (i.e., indulge now or postpone until a more appropriate time, etc). This area of the brain doesn't reach physical maturity until the mid to late 20's. So, when we ask our teen, "What were you thinking!?", their answer, "I don't know" is extremely accurate since the area that does that sort of thinking hasn't matured yet!

Even more interesting, by preventing negative consequences from a person's actions, we actually PREVENT the learning necessary for the ability to make sound decisions and delay gratification. In other words, parents, friends, and spouses who keep preventing the negative consequences from poor choices are simply making it more and more difficult for the person to make good decisions.

Likewise, the abuse of mood altering substances strengthens the pleasure center's influence on impulsive behavior and weakens the prefrontal cortex from functioning because the effects of intoxication prevent the individual from LEARNING from negative consequences while under the influence! This is called "blackouts", otherwise known as amnesia.

People are astounded that my nearly fatal accidental OD didn't "scare me straight"! How could it? I wasn't there! I have no recall of the incident whatsoever. It scared the hell out of my ex-wife and kids. But it didn't do didley squat for me.

Bottom line, by lovingly supporting your son without actually "fixing" things will help his recovery and improve his ability to make better decisions the longer he is clean. It's tough for Mom to watch (Dad's too...I had to do that with my daughter when she was in the early stages of her recovery), but it's the best thing we can do any way you look at it.

Prayers!

Jack

[sharona97, BSN, RN]

I too agree Jackstem,

Even tho the ache is there to fix his world, make his hurt and pain go away, I altogether know that I can't. I'm not fooling myself as a mom, parent or spouse that I really could.

That is why I didn't make the effort to pick him up Sunday. I felt I needed to get things done here at home knowing that he knows he can just show up and never worry it is inconvenient. He also knows the value I place on family dinner time. I say that without the intent that any of that is conditional. I just know that D gets it. Unfortunetly he had no ride out on Sunday.

This morning I said several times, I wish I could take away the pain. He really stepped up to the plate and took the responsibility. He surprised me in revealing he had already told dad all of this, the garbage, the insurance, the house and apparently my husband's feedback was positive and not enabling, only supportive. As it should be. I found it interesting that my dh didn't mention it to me, but dh would only say, I know how you worry and I didn't want you to. It's all good.

I am very thankful that there is that level of communication going on between his father and himself.

I was able to talk to D about Celebrate Recovery and D is anxious to see the website and some of the correspondance you've been so generous with. (((((((Jackstem)))))

I think D may be taking up your offer.

So many blessings each and every day. It's become a top prioity in this family for each of us to count them and than give thanks on a daily basis more now than ever before.

Man, I am so mushy right now. It's been a day of tears today.

A good deed serves a prayer in need! Thanks for everyone's feedback. I really feel this thread has become a great outlet for me. I can't express enough how much this helps.

Sharona

[chiefshewho]

Sharona,

I am so glad you are there for your son. He is learning to live life just as I am. It may take years to repair our lives, and some things will never be the same.

You said he is financially burdened and his wife is not helping? I have learned I am grateful to have a husband. I was mad at him for awhile. Why couldn't he help me repair this mess? He pushed me to use, right? I know now it is all mine and I need to own it.

God will get him through this. I will pray for your family.

[jackstem]

I too agree Jackstem,

Even tho the ache is there to fix his world, make his hurt and pain go away, I altogether know that I can't. I'm not fooling myself as a mom, parent or spouse that I really could.

That is why I didn't make the effort to pick him up Sunday. I felt I needed to get things done here at home knowing that he knows he can just show up and never worry it is inconvenient. He also knows the value I place on family dinner time. I say that without the intent that any of that is conditional. I just know that D gets it. Unfortunetly he had no ride out on Sunday.

This morning I said several times, I wish I could take away the pain. He really stepped up to the plate and took the responsibility. He surprised me in revealing he had already told dad all of this, the garbage, the insurance, the house and apparently my husband's feedback was positive and not enabling, only supportive. As it should be. I found it interesting that my dh didn't mention it to me, but dh would only say, I know how you worry and I didn't want you to. It's all good.

I am very thankful that there is that level of communication going on between his father and himself.

I was able to talk to D about Celebrate Recovery and D is anxious to see the website and some of the correspondance you've been so generous with. (((((((Jackstem)))))

I think D may be taking up your offer.

So many blessings each and every day. It's become a top prioity in this family for each of us to count them and than give thanks on a daily basis more now than ever before.

Man, I am so mushy right now. It's been a day of tears today.

A good deed serves a prayer in need! Thanks for everyone's feedback. I really feel this thread has become a great outlet for me. I can't express enough how much this helps.

Sharona

Your son has a wise father AND mother!

Jack

[sharona97, BSN, RN]

Ah I don't know today how wise I am Jackstem,

I'm beginning to flucuate and I hope I'm not being snowed.

Yesterday, very bad day for D. Angry, frustrated, wants to stop the stay of committment and go to work FT. Social worker called the DA's office and they said no. After 7 phone calls and simply listening to his vents and than encouraging, encouraging for him to talk about this in his meeting for last night, I ended up with a rotten headache. By 3:00pm it was decided that D would move back home (as we had previously discussed).

Set ground rules. He must continue with treatment. He must purchase the health issurance at $173/month, keep taking his meds, follow through with doctor visits. Oh agreed!!!!!!!! And then he came home about 8:30pm. How was group? I din't go. OKAY...........................................................

So as I'm warming up some supper I asked when did you get off work? "7:30", and I 'm seeing the nod, the slow speech and so I asked, are you high......... No just tired mom. Fast forward...................

This morning, he's defenitly nodding. I ask again, no mom everything that happened yesterday has me wore out. He's limping, his right foot is swollen at the base of the toes and red, he tripped. No markation that I could see.

I am sick to my stomach. He siad upon leaving this morning, well I have to figure out a way to get to group. I'm with the truck today (mom) and I'm not sure how he'll get a ride. I can't worry about that. What I am worried about is if he is trying to fool me, he's not. But am I being paranoid? His whole appearance is just different.

Now what?

Sharona

[chiefshewho]

I think mom knows best.......your instinct is probably right.

[sharona97, BSN, RN]

Now what? How do I handle this?

I recently returned to work (after 3years), yeah that! But I know today I have little kids for a flu clinic. I have FluMist and flu vaccine. I need to get that right and I will. But this stuff with D just eats at me and yet at the same time I know I need to let him fall.

Oh the whirl wind moment. I could cry right now but I'm not.

Dh suspected it a few weekends ago, it wasn'tso blatant as this and we gave the benefit of the doubt.

Oh dear.......:no::no:

Sharona

[Elvish, BSN, DNP, RN, NP]

Sharona, you are a strong lady. You know that. As much as you love your son, he has to learn to stand or fall on his own. You know that too. Hang in there, honey. :icon_hug: :icon_hug:

[Tweety, BSN, RN]

Hang in there Sharona. Tough love is tough and it's love.

[jackstem]

Sharona,

Wisdom comes from experience. Experience comes from mistakes.

We hope that our mistakes don't also happen to kill us. Then there is no wisdom.

If he's not following the rules, what are the consequences? Did you discuss what happens if you suspect he's using or if he actually starts using again?

Maybe it's time for a family meeting to clear the air and establish the ground rules and consequences. Write it all out and have everyone sign it. That way he can't complain if he suffers some significant consequences. It also helps you remain calm if things do deteriorate. No need to scream, cajole, bargain, or lecture. You point to the agreement, tell him why you're going to enforce the rule and have him pay the predetermined penalty (consequence).

It's your home. You have the right to say how things will go under your roof.

Jack

[sharona97, BSN, RN]

Yeah, my dh and I talked last night and also this morning. When D came home from work last noc he was tired. Had to make pick ups and deliveries north of the Twin Cities. It was 8:00pm when he got home and siad he was beat. He went straight to bed.

He has stayed in touch with the social worker and with his after care supervisor over these last couple of days.

Dh said it as well Jackstem, I think we need a come to Jesus talk.

So that is where it stands. D and I have talked alot about the consequences. And I do get the feeling from him that he knows he's on the fence (at times) and that is what keeps him straight. All the destruction.

We talked about how it may take YEARS to clean up the messes.

I guess the bottom line for me is, is he lying to me? As parents don't we want to believe our kids? Even during the aftermath? Yet I don't feel I'm to stupid to call it as I see. But then I hear , "no mom I'm not high, I'm tired".

Growing up I saw the ugliest excude from my mom and her alcohol addiction, Forever there I was dying for her love...........

And now it's like a reversal, not concerning love between D and I but the trust issue.

I feel kinda stupid because here I was so elated in D's progress and posting about it and now at the drop of a hat, I'm questioning myself and D.

It's a nightmare.

And yet the holidays are coming up again.

It will be good for the weekend to get here.

Thanks you guys.

Sharona

[jackstem]

Ahhhhh yes, the Holidays. A man I have a great deal of respect for, both in and out of the program of the 12 Steps said to me the other day:

"Addiction is a threefold disease, Thanksgiving, Christmas and New Years” I know for me it’s a time to stick close to the program. So what are your plans for the holidays?

The Holidays are stressful for addicts and alcoholics because they are usually associated with negative events from childhood and/or using.

The disease of addiction is seen externally by negative emotions and negative behaviors. Internally, the disease is about addictive thinking, which is irrational thoughts and denial associated with drug activities (obtaining and using). Lying, amnesia for events while using (called "blackouts"), sneaking, stealing, etc. are external signs of disease activity, just like slurred speech, nodding off, and unsteady gait are physical signs.

Addicts are not bad people trying to become good. We are sick people trying to become well. Treatment for a disease, especially serious diseases like cancer, heart disease, and chemical dependence, doesn't guarantee remission. Relapse/remission is always possible. It's a sign of the disease progression and the need for additional treatment (increased meetings, therapy, etc.) including a return to the hospital if the disease progresses significantly.

When I find myself becoming angry with a recovering addict (such as my daughter) because I think they should be "fixed" or "better" since they have been through a treatment program, in my mind I change the disease from addiction to cancer. Would I become angry with my daughter if her cancer re-occurred? No! I would get her butt back to the oncologist for additional medical evaluation and treatment if it was necessary.

Our society sees this disease as a moral failing and a lack of willpower. This has been ingrained in all of us to an extent. We can't just turn that off once we learn some of the science. It takes time and reminders from someone who is less emotionally involved to get back to the reality that this is a disease of the brain which is evidenced by negative emotions, thoughts, and actions.

Be gentle and forgiving with yourself, this is going to take time and perseverance.

Hugs and prayers,

Jack