Wherever I've worked, we always call doctors 'Dr So and So'. I've never been anywhere where they are called by their first name. They call nurses by first name.
I'm old-fashioned in this way. I feel that MDs deserve this respect. I'm in no way groveling and generally enjoy all the doctors I work with, especially the more seasoned, experienced ones. Some of the younger ones have yet to develop into interesting people, and tend to lack great social skills.
I also address my children's school teachers by Mrs or Mr and their surname, even if they try to get on first name basis. I come from a different generation where people were more formal. When I was a girl one did not address any adults but your parents' close friends by their first names.
Is this changing in some places and how do you feel about this subject?
Specializes in trauma, ortho, burns, plastic surgery.
Old fashion here also... Dr si DR. for me, is about respect of his/her study years and social position, all old people are Madame, Miss, Mister or Sir, I can't tell them on their Middle name... is a cultural isuse, probably. Couple of day ago one of CNA told me Miss ...my name..., looooool, I fell like I have 1000years old, lool. Was just a form of respect, but for me, that I never fell the necesity to be A MISS, was like a shock... like... "please NEVER told me MISS, I am just Zuzi, always!"
Now depend how people fell about? Is better to ask them "Could I tell you DR/Miss/Sir X?" if he/she is agree keep going if not just tell on their name.
For me dosen't matter in any how at soon you are respectfull I will be the same.
Specializes in Emergency Dept. Trauma. Pediatrics.
I'm curious if there are any regional traditions at play here. I live out West, which I think is considered less formal, but I've never run into this first name basis out here.
I have lived all over the country, Ca, Wa, Tx, Fl, Va, Co the longest place I lived was WA and that was for 10 years.
I also wanted to comment on the respect thing I have seen. I don't feel anyone has to EARN my respect, I give everyone a clean slate and respect, if they loose that respect much like trust, they have to earn it back but it doesn't start off that way. Than again I usually am pretty trusting and give people the benefit of the doubt unless I have reason not to.
I think everyone deserves a level of respect until they have proven other wise.
I usually call them by their first name except in front of the patient. They rarely introduce themselves to us as Dr.soandso. I usually call and when they answer the phone, tell them what I need and when I receive an order I ask for their name and some times I am just given their first name. I have to drag the last name out of them.
I call them doctor out of respect for their education and the hard work it took to earn that title. However, I do charity work with a doctor who prefers to go by first names. Out of respect for him, I call him Kent.
1. If someone is older than you, you are supposed to call them by their title and surname, unless they state they would prefer differently.
2. Persons of authority...same thing.
3. When conducting business....whether younger or older...when you are addressing a client or customer....same thing....title and last name.
4. You can use a first-name basis automatically with folks of the same age, younger, and co-workers.
Physicians are not employees of the hospital, they have privileges...which is reason #2 of why hospitals would prefer that nurses and patients call them by their title...however, we have two physicians at our hospital that prefer that the staff calls them by their first name...and as you can imagine, these are younger physicians.
Basic etiquette is fine--and so is the "earned" perspective to some degree. But by those two standards then each and every nurse should be addressed as Nurse So & So until they give someone permission to call them by their first name.
We aren't waitressed, (not knocking waitressing mind you) but from a professional standpoint, we act like it.
This is a fundamental issue for nurses in general. Did you not work hard and earn your nursing degree???? Did you not work even harder in learning your particular area of clinical expertise???? Do you not still work hard to continue your education and maintain it????
Why is is that nurses can be addressed by their first names by physicians or patients or whoever simply by default??? What "professional" or "etiquette" book did that come from?
As far as in front of patients, well, the same thing goes for when physicians are working with nurses in front of patients. They should then address them as nurse so & so, even if they have permission to use the nurse's first name. Why the double standard?
Nurses get treated as less b/c they perceive themselves and their profession as somehow less.
With regard to respect--true respect anyway--is a WHOLE separate issue.
I call physicians and pts and families by their titles or sir names untill they ask me to address them otherwise. It is the individual's choice as to how they want to be addressed. At the same time, nurses should then refer to each other as Nurse So & So until directed otherwise by the nurse to whom he or she is addressing.
Let's be consistent at least for heaven's sake. No double standards.
My son went to a Friend's school for awhile. They taught them to address the teachers as Teacher Brown or Teacher So & So. I am sure they have earned the right to be addressed as teacher.
All I'm saying is hold the same standard to each other as colleagues--fellow nurses as we do with others. Then we might be more apt to expect it from others outside our profession.
Trust me. I know many folks that have PhD after their names. They don't get trippy over the title--and--they know darn well what they've earned.
BTW, just b/c you are a physician, it doesn't mean you are a doctor in the original sense of the academic title. It's used primarily b/c the immigrants that sought care at the universities froom those that held professorships back in Europe were addressed by the academic professorship titles--and they were familiar with that when they came over here--it's what they wanted and were used to. Over time the medical schools and medical profession started to uphold that trend--along with some other factors--historically speaking. Look it up.
Just b/c you learn clinical medicine doesn't necessarily mean you have earned the title of professorship--professorship generally refers to earned depth in practice--a level of expertise--optained through intensive writing, intensive research and regular presentation, etc. It's different for a number of reasons. Most medical school educations are not academic in the same sense--that is, that of being intense in particular research and writing intensive related to the particular area or areas--unless they are COMBINED programs like MD/Masters in Public Health or MD/PhD.
In reality, all those that have earned an academic research and writing based post graduate doctorates are those that by truest definition referred to as "doctor." That's why in the earlier days of medical school education in this country, that title wasn't used. Or at the very least, the person had to be post-graduate with a number of years of practice and leadership before they could be addressed with a title honorary or no--pertaining to a certain level of developed expertise.
By the way, the new medical school grads will be out in June. If you think they know a heck of a lot--even more than you in terms of clinical application--other than perhaps a more indepth understanding of the natural sciences and physiology and patho didactically speaking (and even that may depend on the individual learning of the individual nurse--I have tended to dig deep and delve into a lot of stuff on my own over the years--as do a fair number of nurses I know--though IMHO--not as many as I would like--else we'd have significantly more intense Journal Club and other professional meetings on clinical insight and development.)--well, you are in for one heck of a shock. No one really learns how to be a PHYSICIAN or NURSE until he or she practices it a lot and regularly for at least a good couple of years. That's why med students MUST do residencies and write PGY1, 2, 3, 4, or whatever. Hmmm, maybe nurses should have to write RN, PGY1, 2, 3, etc. Just something to consider.)
But when it's all said and done, as the old saying goes, "Call me want you want, as long as it ain't late for dinner."
which is reason #2 of why hospitals would prefer that nurses and patients call them by their title
Please don't use blanket statements like that since some people have posted that the hospital where they work prefers everyone be on equal ground.
I guess you can read something as negative if that is how you want to read it.
SOME hospitals may want them to be on equal ground but MOST follow this protocol. Physicians will be quick to tell you if they wish to be called by their first name...but to me, it's a discussion I would rather have them initiate then rather be embarrassed by, "I would rather have you call me Dr. ____ instead". Why set yourself up like that?
Have you ever read a basic etiquette book?
If you ever had (which I suspect you have probably never seen one)....this is one of the standards that you see in just about any of them that you pick up.
It's better to be overly polite than just walk up to Dr. Richard Smith and say, "Hey, Dick, how is it going for you?"
You will also never be incorrect....versus the alternative, or be at risk for coming across as unprofessional.
It takes very little effort and goes a long way. I just choose not to go through life doing bare minimum.
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zuzi
502 Posts
Old fashion here also... Dr si DR. for me, is about respect of his/her study years and social position, all old people are Madame, Miss, Mister or Sir, I can't tell them on their Middle name... is a cultural isuse, probably. Couple of day ago one of CNA told me Miss ...my name..., looooool, I fell like I have 1000years old, lool. Was just a form of respect, but for me, that I never fell the necesity to be A MISS, was like a shock... like... "please NEVER told me MISS, I am just Zuzi, always!"
Now depend how people fell about? Is better to ask them "Could I tell you DR/Miss/Sir X?" if he/she is agree keep going if not just tell on their name.
For me dosen't matter in any how at soon you are respectfull I will be the same.