Does B.A. + A.D.N. = B.S.N. for promotions

GrnHonu99, RN · Jun 17, 2005

I wish!! but unfortunetly no. I have a BA in psych and soc. and I always wondered the same thing.

In a traditional BSN program you will have classes such as Pathophysiology that an ADN program won't have (there are others too). In my BA I did not take pathophys so my BA wouldnt = a BSN even if I had an ADN..lol..I prob. just confused you even more! I guess I should j ust say the differences in classes between ADN and BSN may not be covered in an BA you might get/have so if you want a BSN you will need to go back for the BSN:( good luck:)

sunnyjohn · Jun 17, 2005

RN + most qualified person for the job= promotion.

... Or at least that is the way it should be.

SmilingBluEyes · Jun 17, 2005

Hello:
I know that it is very helpful to have a BSN to get into management. Is a B.A. plus ADN the same thing?

No.

And is it not STUPID???! It's one of my biggest gripes about nursing and education.

suzanne4, RN · Jun 18, 2005

Depends on what the BA was in...............

I have a BS in Biology with a major in Physiology and it has never kept me from anything that I have wanted to do. It also depends on how you market yourself. :)

llg, PhD, RN · Jun 18, 2005

Hello:
I know that it is very helpful to have a BSN to get into management. Is a B.A. plus ADN the same thing?

Whether you can earn a specific promotion will depend upon the specifics of the situation. I have known many people who have been promoted with a combination of degrees such as you describe. However ... ADN plus a bachelor's in another field does not equal a bachelor's in nursing. If it did ... by the same logic ... then an Assciate's Degree in physics plus a PhD in nursing would equal a PhD in physics -- and we all know that is not the case. Getting (or having) a higher degree in one field does not automatically give you that same higher level of education in every other field.

There are also political and social considerations involved. If we want to advance the nursing profession and help it to gain respect, prestige, political power, clout, etc. so that we can accomplish our goals as a profession, we need to encourage respect for the academic "branch" or our discipline. Nursing leaders are right to encourage higher education IN NURSING as the preferred academic preparation of nurse leaders and to discourage the substitution of other degrees.

Individual people with only the bare minimum education in nursing may be very talented and worthy of promotion. My current boss is such a person and I am OK with that. But as a whole ... as a profession ... we need to encourage/support NURSING education and not weaken ourselves by saying that an advanced education in nursing is not necessary to be an advanced nurse. Even my boss agress with that in spite of the fact that her college degrees are not in nursing. (She was originally a diploma grad.)

llg

sheri_u2 · Jun 22, 2005

I was curious about this one.............

What if your bachelors degree was business focussed (B.S.) and your an ADN and are hoping to go into "administration management type" positions after bedside? Does your bachelors assist you there?

ZASHAGALKA, RN · Jun 22, 2005

bare minimum of education??

difference between ADN and BSN is negligible which is why you get paid the same as I do.

Bare minimum!?!?

How insulting. Wake up from your arrogance - it is thought processes like this that keeps nursing down by keeping us divided, not lack of your vaunted education.

~faith,

Timothy.

SmilingBluEyes · Jun 22, 2005

Whether you can earn a specific promotion will depend upon the specifics of the situation. I have known many people who have been promoted with a combination of degrees such as you describe. However ... ADN plus a bachelor's in another field does not equal a bachelor's in nursing. If it did ... by the same logic ... then an Assciate's Degree in physics plus a PhD in nursing would equal a PhD in physics -- and we all know that is not the case. Getting (or having) a higher degree in one field does not automatically give you that same higher level of education in every other field.
There are also political and social considerations involved. If we want to advance the nursing profession and help it to gain respect, prestige, political power, clout, etc. so that we can accomplish our goals as a profession, we need to encourage respect for the academic "branch" or our discipline. Nursing leaders are right to encourage higher education IN NURSING as the preferred academic preparation of nurse leaders and to discourage the substitution of other degrees.
Individual people with only the bare minimum education in nursing may be very talented and worthy of promotion. My current boss is such a person and I am OK with that. But as a whole ... as a profession ... we need to encourage/support NURSING education and not weaken ourselves by saying that an advanced education in nursing is not necessary to be an advanced nurse. Even my boss agress with that in spite of the fact that her college degrees are not in nursing. (She was originally a diploma grad.)
llg

so an ADN is the "bare minimum?" Nice. The difference between an ADN and BSN is not that great most places!

And..... What about the AD coupled with, say a BA and MPH? (or other related field) still a disadvantage? Don't think so. I can't help but think advanced degrees in other disciplines but nursing (like biologic/physical sciences or human resources/psychology), coupled with AD degrees would be a real BOON, not a "bare minimum.":angryfire

llg, PhD, RN · Jun 22, 2005

I am sorry that I did not express myself well in my earlier post. I never meant to imply that there is something "wrong" with nurses with ADN degrees. People are reading a little more into my post than I intended. I was not talking about the quality of the people who have that particular degree or any other. If you re-read my post, I hope you will see that I said several times that I supported the promotion of nurses with ADN's plus other degrees if the situation warrented it. The person with an ADN plus a management degree is a good example of a person who might well be qualified for a nursing management position. As I also said ... my boss's highest nursing degree is a diploma from a hospital school and I am OK with that.

What has to be acknowledged though by those who want to advance within the nursing profession is that the ADN degree is the "first level" nursing degree. It is the "minimal requirement" for being licensed as a nurse. Many ADN programs provide an excellent education that covers more than the "bare minimum" material -- but the credential itself is the minimal academic degree required for licensure. That's what I was referring to when I said "bare minimum" -- I was referring to the ranking of the credential within the hierarchy of academic degrees -- I was NOT referring to the quality of people who hold that degree.

Nurses who wish to advance beyond the introductory level of the profession are being increasingly asked to get a higher nursing degree. While that may pose a hardship to some people (particularly those who have already invested in another career before deciding to become a nurse), it's to be expected in a profession that is striving to gain respect and authority within the health care world. Other professions require advanced educations within their discipline for higher-level positions. If we want to stand side-by-side with those other professionals as equals, we will need to have similar educational standards.

Again, I apologize to the people whom I unintentionally offended.

llg

ZASHAGALKA, RN · Jun 22, 2005

What has to be acknowledged though by those who want to advance within the nursing profession is that the ADN degree is the "first level" nursing degree. It is the "minimal requirement" for being licensed as a nurse. Many ADN programs provide an excellent education that covers more than the "bare minimum" material -- but the credential itself is the minimal academic degree required for licensure. That's what I was referring to when I said "bare minimum" -- I was referring to the ranking of the credential within the hierarchy of academic degrees -- I was NOT referring to the quality of people who hold that degree. llg

First, I acknowledge no such thing. Second, your apology is still weighted in arrogance. Third, you apparently suffer from the conceited notion that the only way to 'advance' in nursing is to move away from that icky, beneath you, bedside care.

As far as ranking my credentials: they are RN, CCRN

(notice that my CREDENTIALS are the same as yours, and the only way that my credentials distinguish between a bach degree or not is if I chose to make the distinction, as it is irrelevent to the primary credentialing, which we share. I could have just as easily said: )

RN, CCRN, BA-Biology/Chemistry.

The only difference in programs is that BSN contain more on professional theory (which is a bunch of bupkiss which leads you to stupid ideas like not having a BSN is bringing down the profession for 'true professionals' like yourself), Research (which for the record, I have tons more researcg education than your BSN program provided since I was trained as a biological researcher), and management (and if you listen to the complaints about management on this site, you will quickly find that a 3 credit class on management isn't nearly sufficient. - I'll take my non-commissioned officer's leadership course any day.)

Your degree does not make you a better or more rounded nurse than me and the arrogance that you excrete doesn't do either of us any good.

BSN entry won't help nursing. So keep on wishing you were a real boy. The fairy princess of BSN-only won't magically transform you. Unity will - and it is your argument that undermines that.

For everybody sighing 'that stupid ole debate' I didn't enter this thread insulting 70% of us - but I dang sure won't let it pass unanswered.

~faith,

Timothy.