Doctoral degree to become an NP???

[VickyRN]

The American Association of Colleges of Nursing (AACN) is calling for the requirement of doctorate in nursing for advanced practice nurses, such as nurse practitioners, nurse midwives, clinical nurse specialists, and nurse anesthetists. This new degree will be called a Doctor of Nursing Practice and, if the AACN has its way, will become the entry level for advanced nursing practice.

AACN Position Statement on the Practice Doctorate in Nursing

[stormforce]

You obviously do not work in primary care, so what would you know about it? Family practice sees the most complex issues from the very beginning, however when the issues are complex, the important thing for them to know how to do is to refer those issues to a specialist. This alone would seem to show the unnecessary aspects of studying how to TREAT the complex issues. They don't TREAT those issues. Even though they study them, it is unnecessary for them to treat them, so where is the value in that? They don't even really diagnose it, they just simply have to know which specialist to refer the problem to. You are very confused about what is vital in primary care. You obviously don't understand the practice of it or how it is supposed to work.

Really, do you honestly believe this. Yes primary care refers on to a specialist but there has to be that in depth understanding of the various conditions, both common and rare to even identify some of these disorders. They treat and manage multiple pathologies with the poly pharmacy that comes with that without referring to specialists.

I cannot understand how any professional would believe that less education could be a good thing

[GM2RN]

I've been following this discussion and just want to clarify one point. I have a BSN and in my part of the country there is absolutely no difference in pay between my degree and the ADN in the four hospitals where I have worked. I did hear of one hospital paying the BSN a paltry $0.25 more per hour than the ADN, but not enough to say they make more, in my opinion.

[XB9S, BSN, MSN, EdD, RN, APN]

OK guys that's enough, please discuss the subject at hand and stay away from the personal insults. Lets see if we can at least try to keep this thread open please

[Jstand]

Really, do you honestly believe this. Yes primary care refers on to a specialist but there has to be that in depth understanding of the various conditions, both common and rare to even identify some of these disorders. They treat and manage multiple pathologies with the poly pharmacy that comes with that without referring to specialists.

I cannot understand how any professional would believe that less education could be a good thing

My point is that a nurse practitioner has enough education to manage this. You obviously just don't comprehend the argument. If a certain level of education is adequate to do the job, then any additional education is simply superfluous and does not add value. It simply costs more. There does not have to be any in depth understanding of rare conditions to be able to perform at the highest level of primary care. There just has to be enough to be able to recognize that something rare might be going on and it needs to be referred.

[CheekyMonkey0981]

Any danger of a nurse getting excited about delivering quality nursing care to their patients and advancing the science and skills of nursing for the sake of their patients rather than trying to constantly score points about extended roles and who is the more qualified to care for and treat the patient. Heaven forbid that the patient ever becomes the most important person in this debate.

[Jstand]

I've been following this discussion and just want to clarify one point. I have a BSN and in my part of the country there is absolutely no difference in pay between my degree and the ADN in the four hospitals where I have worked. I did hear of one hospital paying the BSN a paltry $0.25 more per hour than the ADN, but not enough to say they make more, in my opinion.

Then why get the BSN? It obviously added no value at all and nobody wants to pay anything extra for it. I guess my question is, what is the point in it?

[Jstand]

Any danger of a nurse getting excited about delivering quality nursing care to their patients and advancing the science and skills of nursing for the sake of their patients rather than trying to constantly score points about extended roles and who is the more qualified to care for and treat the patient. Heaven forbid that the patient ever becomes the most important person in this debate.

I suppose that I could agree with most of this. I would say that I believe extended roles are good for the patient. That is putting the patient first. What I am talking about when I say independent practice for NPs is advocating patients having access to providers who want to provide good customer service as well as good patient care at a reasonable price. To me that is a win-win for the patient, especially when it can be done with a masters trained nurse. I think that there is no better value than that.

[XB9S, BSN, MSN, EdD, RN, APN]

I have deleted and edited posts that are off topic within the last few pages, I've not PM'd anyone about this but if you find your post has gone or changed that it's because it's off topic and personal.

Now another request and I will be as clear as I possibly can, please stay on topic, please do not post personal insults or barbed responses to other members. Try to debate this as professionals otherwise we will see yet another ANP thread at risk of closing

This is a discussion about a doctoral degree to become a NP, not about questioning each others credentials, or throwing insults at each other

Thank you in anticipation

[PICUPNP]

What I am talking about when I say independent practice for NPs is advocating patients having access to providers who want to provide good customer service as well as good patient care at a reasonable price. To me that is a win-win for the patient, especially when it can be done with a masters trained nurse. I think that there is no better value than that.

The misunderstanding is that most NPs continue to function in these areas with a PHYSICIAN in collaboration for the complex issues. This debate is about the need for a doctoral degree to practice as a NP. It is not needed in its current form. If the dnp were to add in additional hard sciences with the addition of extra clinical hours, then this would be a worthwhile effort. But at this stage in the game, the dnp is too little of what it was designed for and that is a terminal degree for NPs.

[Jstand]

The misunderstanding is that most NPs continue to function in these areas with a PHYSICIAN in collaboration for the complex issues. This debate is about the need for a doctoral degree to practice as a NP. It is not needed in its current form. If the dnp were to add in additional hard sciences with the addition of extra clinical hours, then this would be a worthwhile effort. But at this stage in the game, the dnp is too little of what it was designed for and that is a terminal degree for NPs.

The question really is, what is collaboration? In most states it is some useless after the fact chart reviews that don't mean anything in primary care settings. I would agree with you, the DNP isn't needed in its current form and it isn't needed for independent practice either. I don't even think it would be a worthwhile effort if it added additional hard sciences or extra clinical hours. I think that an experience requirement for independent practice would be much more valuable than the DNP. I do think that physician's problem with it stem mostly from the title that comes with it though, and I do find that to be ridiculous.

[traumaRUs, MSN, APRN]

Nope, the question IS NOT collaboration - its whether an APN needs a doctoral degree to practice.

Please stay on topic!!!

You may of course spin off another thread if you wish to discuss another subject.

Appreciate that you educated posters will understand the substance of this message.

[Jstand]

Nope, the question IS NOT collaboration - its whether an APN needs a doctoral degree to practice.

Please stay on topic!!!

You may of course spin off another thread if you wish to discuss another subject.

Appreciate that you educated posters will understand the substance of this message.

If you want the discussion to be that general then my opinion would be that the answer is no. I don't understand why it would be sufficient to have a masters degree and practice now, but for there would be a need for a doctoral degree five years from now.