Doctoral degree to become an NP???

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The American Association of Colleges of Nursing (AACN) is calling for the requirement of doctorate in nursing for advanced practice nurses, such as nurse practitioners, nurse midwives, clinical nurse specialists, and nurse anesthetists. This new degree will be called a Doctor of Nursing Practice and, if the AACN has its way, will become the entry level for advanced nursing practice.

AACN Position Statement on the Practice Doctorate in Nursing

Good work. In just two career postings you now understand the difference between the terms "doctor" and "physician." Remember, just a day ago you said:

The DNP is designed to aid nurses in translating best evidence into clinical practice.

Fortunately, best evidence is followed and, anti DNP agenda on this board notwithstanding, best evidence does drive the fact that ANP's, and yes even DNP's are independent practitioners in 23 states. Again, your claims are clearly biased opinion and not based on fact or evidence.

Nah, her claims are just backed by over a decade of experience as an NP and a nurse-- how many years have you been an NP and an RN?

And how, pray tell, is the DNP degree designed to aid nurses translate evidence based medicine into clinical practice with courses like "nursing leadership" or whatever. Shouldn't you guys be learning more about pathophysiology, pharmacology, etc.? Wouldn't learning more about the "why" help out more?

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Specializes in ER; CCT.
I also have to concede that the policy at Mayo has not been enacted yet.

I appreciate you coming clean and admiting you were completly wrong regarding the non existent policy precluding DNP's from being addressed as doctor at the Mayo clinic, as this is supported by my own research in this matter. Would it not be better, however, in the future, when pursuing an anti DNP agenda if you restricted what you are stating as fact just to factual information?

The "Truth and Transparency" act has been introduced twice..First as HR5568 in the 05-06 congress, and then as the more recent introduction that is sitting in the house subcommittee. To think that the AMA will not puch forward with this again, after trying twice is folly. They are changing the language to remove opposition from other groups (Chiros, Optometry, Psych, Podiatry, etc), they are also making the language tougher as pertains to midlevels. And this affects PA's too. Those PA's that graduate from the Baylor EM program will be restricted as well.

Again, this has failed to even make it out of committee. I agree, the anti DNP movement is a high priority with the AMA as the very existence of DNP's threaten economic interests of both physicians and physician assistants who are dependent upon physicians to practice. As far as the graduates from the Basylor EM program, isn't it true they will still be PA's, or will the PA's become physicians?

Lastly, I was recently approached about precepting Acute Care NP's as part of an ACNP clinical rotation at Mayo, and I said yes wholeheartedly.....

You might want to double check with the educational instituion the students are comming from. As an example, USI as a CCNE accredited instituion, has a policy that precludes PA's from acting as preceptors for Master's or Doctor's Level NP students. I'm not sure if this is an institional standard or a national standard.

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Specializes in ER; CCT.
Nah, her claims are just backed by over a decade of experience as an NP and a nurse-- how many years have you been an NP and an RN?

I think I've been a nurse long enough to know the difference between a physician and a doctor. Do you need an education, too? Remember, I'm here to help.

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I appreciate you coming clean and admiting you were completly wrong regarding the non existent policy precluding DNP's from being addressed as doctor at the Mayo clinic, as this is supported by my own research in this matter. Would it not be better, however, in the future, when pursuing an anti DNP agenda if you restricted what you are stating as fact just to factual information?

Again, this has failed to even make it out of committee. I agree, the anti DNP movement is a high priority with the AMA as the very existence of DNP's threaten economic interests of both physicians and physician assistants who are dependent upon physicians to practice. As far as the graduates from the Basylor EM program, isn't it true they will still be PA's, or will the PA's become physicians?

You might want to double check with the educational instituion the students are comming from. As an example, USI as a CCNE accredited instituion, has a policy that precludes PA's from acting as preceptors for Master's or Doctor's Level NP students. I'm not sure if this is an institional standard or a national standard.

For starters, I believed it to be factual, and no, I am not going to go run to the policy books every ten minutes.

As to the comment regarding the Baylor PA's...yes they will still be PA's. But that's the whole point, a DNP is still and NP, no matter what, or how you try to paint it.

AS far as precepting, considering they HAVE to rotate through the ED, and we only have one NP who is a new grad, and is not in any way ready to precept, they will either have to be with us, or not have their rotation here. It is really that simple. Strange, cause the program director approached ME about it.

A policy that precludes PA's acting as preceptors might be one of the dumbest things I've ever heard......definitely one of the dumbest in a long time.

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Physasst: I read your blog online and you are very bias in your opinion regarding this subject.

I am fairly biased in all of my opinions, as are most people. I have no dislike for NP's or nursing, I have some concerns about the DNP degree.....

IF you can definitively show that

A. it dramatically improves patient care, and lowers M&M, improves outcomes....

and

B. You can show that it either improves patients access to care, or at the very least, does not negatively effect it..

Then I will happily concede, that perhaps this a good idea, and I will support it. UNTIL those two things are shown to me, I will scream against from the tallest rooftops.

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I appreciate you coming clean and admiting you were completly wrong regarding the non existent policy precluding DNP's from being addressed as doctor at the Mayo clinic, as this is supported by my own research in this matter. Would it not be better, however, in the future, when pursuing an anti DNP agenda if you restricted what you are stating as fact just to factual information?

Again, this has failed to even make it out of committee. I agree, the anti DNP movement is a high priority with the AMA as the very existence of DNP's threaten economic interests of both physicians and physician assistants who are dependent upon physicians to practice. As far as the graduates from the Basylor EM program, isn't it true they will still be PA's, or will the PA's become physicians?

You might want to double check with the educational instituion the students are comming from. As an example, USI as a CCNE accredited instituion, has a policy that precludes PA's from acting as preceptors for Master's or Doctor's Level NP students. I'm not sure if this is an institional standard or a national standard.

Oh, and also, there is a rumor, that Emory in Atlanta is pursuing a 2 year PA to MD completion program. NO, I don't have a link, but it is being discussed in various circles. It may only be rumor, but I've heard it several times now from different people.

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I think there is more revelent juice in this topic than titles. So a Doctoral degree to become an NP??? Now versus later..........

The programs I have reviewed are all postmaster programs (you have to have a masters degree to enter) and they all want to review your clinicals and work history as part of their entrance requirements.

Right now we have for the most part we have ADN, BSN, MSN and PhD nurses we are now adding to that DnP...

My wonder is future programs (2015) and beyond:

- Will there no longer be any MSN nurses graduating?

- Will dnp programs double in length to get all the coursework / clinical times in?

- ADN degrees go bye bye and possibly BSN degrees to be replaced by MSN?

So it will be BSN to DNP or PhD????

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you can enter into the DNP program at the university of washington with no nursing experience - having a prior bachelors (non-nursing) and completing some basic pre-reqs.

The more I look around the more variance I find in DNP entrance requirements, program objectives and outcomes.

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I think I've been a nurse long enough to know the difference between a physician and a doctor. Do you need an education, too? Remember, I'm here to help.

I'm getting mine, thanks, just like you're receiving yours. I don't care if the nurses want to call themselves "doctor" so long as they don't do it in front of the patients. The difference between the DNP and all the other doctoral degrees is that normally physicians don't work on the floors with the guy who has a PhD in botany. Come ot think of it, physicians normally don't cross paths that frequently with dentists, either. So the distinction and lines become a little bit clearer. How would you like it if the MA's started calling themselves nurses?

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Dentists also have the highest education possible in their field. No one else does teeth. Frankly a medical doctor is not qualified to do what dentists do to teeth. Silas is right... very rarely do the paths cross between MDs and dentists and when they do, the dentists are consulting because the MD needs help with a dental problem.

In contrast, the DNP is not the highest level of education for training on how to take care of medically sick patients. The overlap between MD and DNP is substantial and the DNP education is not as complete as an MD's. It is not as if an internist is going to consult a DNP because they have a different niche. They are the same niche but one has better, longer, more complete training.

In the end, it's not going to matter what we say on this board because it will be decided by the politicians.

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Dang; since all other subject matter has gone down the tubes will someone change the name of this thread: What will/should a DnP be called on the job......

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Specializes in Pre-Nursing Student.

I agree, way off subject now. Besides its not like the Nurses with Doctorates are wanting to be called "physicians", just "doctor" which they have earned.

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