Docs yelling at nurses....

[ClassQ1]

Hi guys,

I have been reading the several posts about doctors yelling at the nurses. I am wondering:

1. As a male nurse, is it any different?

2. Have you ever had to deal with yelling physicians? If yes, what did you do? How did you deal with it? I read several posts stating from mouthing off to cry in the bathroom (mostly women on how they react).

3. It is my second career moving from a corporate environment with lots of politics. We cannot tolerate such things. A person can be written up for such behaviors. However, me going into nursing, I carry the same habits. I cannot put up with such behaviors. I am just wondering how to prepare myself. It is something common and have to learn to deal with it or there are ways to handle it without feeling embarrassed such as involving HR,etc...? The politically correct way that I know is to let the physician know that he doesnt realize that he is yelling and to go to a more private place to discuss it and if he doesnt listen, just walk away from him (ignore him).

Please enlighten me with your experiences and advises....

[alcrab01]

I have been yelled at once by a neurosurgeon, but I managed to remain calm and seated as he repeatedly slammed the chart on the counter in front of my face...

He had every right to be upset, but he was shooting the messenger. At the beginning of my shift I was getting report on a fresh post-op ventriculostomy, the nurse was saying, "Well, he was fighting a lot when he came up from PACU. I had to put him in restraints because he kept trying to get out of the bed. But he's been asleep for the past couple of hours..." At this point, my "Oh crap" alarm went off and I went in the room to do a neuro check. He was fixed and dilated. So, I stat-paged the neurosurgeon. He took one look at the patient and.. well.. I''ll replaced every f-word with banana. He picked up the patient's chart and started slamming it on the counter right next to my computer. He yelled, "Doesn't any of you know how to do a banana neuro check! This patient is going to banana die! What the banana am I supposed to do now? I can't banana fix someone who is already banana brain dead! What banana nursing school did you go to?"

I calmly explained that the patient was already fixed and dilated when I arrived on the unit and that I had paged him immediately after I had assessed the patient. The neurosurgeon went in the room and picked up the patient's Hemo-vac. He said, "You haven't banana emptied this yet?!?" and squeezed the Hemo-vac, coating his un-gloved hands in the patient's blood. Oh yeah, the patient was HIV positive. The doc said, "What the banana am I supposed to do now?" I said, "You might want to start by washing your hands."

The patient survived for 2 more days after going back to the OR that night.

[CITCAT]

Hello my brothers in nursing , as to to question of doctorsyelling at nurses, inone hospital in the midwest thay have a code for misbehaving doctors its a private code by the nurses so as to stop this unprofessional behaviour, personality i wouldnt put up with it re thread nurse slapped by doctor. We are professionals there are other ways legaly to address the issue so guysMANUP AND girlsGALUP

[trrinatl]

I've been yelled a couple of times in 20 years of being an RN. Usually , i'm the messanger and just relaying info. In 20 years I've also found two great ways for handling the situation.

If the doc is on the unit and yelling at me, I simply walk to the phone and call seurity and tell them that I have a hostile individual on my area and I feel that my safety is treatened. That seems to take the wind right out of their sails. Usually the staff sitting around they the doc views as an audiance is quiet willing to become witnesses.

If the doc is on the phone screaming I simply say, "I can't understand what you are say with all the screaming on the phone, I'm going to hang up now and when you can, call me back from a quieter environment" (but I always make sure to have another nurse listen into the screaming and cursing just for CYA)

[MassED, BSN, RN]

i've never been yelled at. in 15 years i've never seen/heard a doc yell.

i've talked to more than a few angry docs in my days, but none have yelled.

i've read on this board that docs don't act out as much to male nurses as they do to females.[/quote]

hmmmmm that's one to ponder....

[Thunderwolf, MSN, RN]

I think many an older nurse remember the days when physicians could act like spoiled children...the yelling, the temper tantrums, the swearing and cursing, the throwing of objects, the jumping up and down, the red faced anger outbursts, the nasty inappropriate comments on the phone. I tend to see less of this nowadays...and thank god.

Nowadays, if childish physician behavior occurs, my tendency is to:

1. Give a blank expression of boredom to the tirade and get back to discussing the issue at hand...if the tirade continues, I mention to the physician as I walk away to "contact me later when he/she is in better control or calmer."

Come on...they put their pants on the same way as I do....if I don't allow myself being treated like this by a stranger or even by a family member....I am certainly not permitting a physician or any other person to do so. For one thing, I am 47 now...will soon to be 50 some day soon and older...I don't tolerate it. When physician acting out occurs, I simply let him/her know that I am NOT impressed....and may also simply suggest that he/she can do BETTER than this. I look at him/her as a person....not the lab coat or business suit he/she wears.

[Dr.Nurse2b]

I think many an older nurse remember the days when physicians could act like spoiled children...the yelling, the temper tantrums, the swearing and cursing, the throwing of objects, the jumping up and down, the red faced anger outbursts, the nasty inappropriate comments on the phone...

I think you made some great points here. A point also worth mentioning here is this type of behavior - yelling, the temper tantrums, the swearing and cursing, the throwing of objects, the jumping up and down, the red faced anger outbursts, the nasty inappropriate comments on the phone - is also found in other areas/professions, not just medicine and is certainly not limited to MDs.

I think what we should recognize is this behavior could be considered normal human behavior - typical responses to stress, sleep deprivation, etc. I think we respond differenlty to docs yelling because of their level of play...we expect better but what we fail to realize is these are ordinary people just like you and I, however they perform extraordinary tasks. Their responses to stress do not differ from our own.

Remember anger turned inward becomes depression. If we expect docs to "behave" then as nurses we should encourage them to express their feelings of stress in a theraputic manner instead of preaching to them we expect behavior appropriate for royalty. Yes they put on their pants the same as we do...and they also suffer, grieve, become depressed the same as we do...the difference is their profession requires they maintain a front. If someone is yelling at you then its up to YOU to remain professional and try to figure out why the human that stands before you is upset.

Just think how you might feel if the world expected you to stand up straight with a starched collar, smile on your face and a stick up your gazoo even though you feel like crying...I'd be angry too.

Change the way you think...we are supposed to take care of the sick, the weak and those in need...this includes docs who have faulty pressure relief valves. :nuke:

My 2 Cents...

[Thunderwolf, MSN, RN]

I think you made some great points here. A point also worth mentioning here is this type of behavior - yelling, the temper tantrums, the swearing and cursing, the throwing of objects, the jumping up and down, the red faced anger outbursts, the nasty inappropriate comments on the phone - is also found in other areas/professions, not just medicine and is certainly not limited to MDs.

I think what we should recognize is this behavior could be considered normal human behavior - typical responses to stress, sleep deprivation, etc. I think we respond differenlty to docs yelling because of their level of play...we expect better but what we fail to realize is these are ordinary people just like you and I, however they perform extraordinary tasks. Their responses to stress do not differ from our own.

Remember anger turned inward becomes depression. If we expect docs to "behave" then as nurses we should encourage them to express their feelings of stress in a theraputic manner instead of preaching to them we expect behavior appropriate for royalty. Yes they put on their pants the same as we do...and they also suffer, grieve, become depressed the same as we do...the difference is their profession requires they maintain a front. If someone is yelling at you then its up to YOU to remain professional and try to figure out why the human that stands before you is upset.

Just think how you might feel if the world expected you to stand up straight with a starched collar, smile on your face and a stick up your gazoo even though you feel like crying...I'd be angry too.

Change the way you think...we are supposed to take care of the sick, the weak and those in need...this includes docs who have faulty pressure relief valves. :nuke:

My 2 Cents...

Excellent post, thank you.

You mention that anger turned inward turns into depression....and the professional expectation to put on "a front." I hear and understand you. Tis the very reason that depression and substance use runs high in the medical field....just like in the nursing profession. In the medical field, on the average, 300-400 physicians take their lives every year from suicide related deaths....that is about 1-2 physicians per day. So, I do understand. But, also despite this, when any person, even a physician, loses control and lashes out inappropriately...he/she will know that it is not appreciated. If you treat me, the other nurses, and your patients well, you get my respect. Respect is earned and not taken for granted or misused.

Again, thank you for your post.

[Thunderwolf, MSN, RN]

And just as a side note, many nurses do understand in some way the rigors and stress that physicians must face....they really do...especially in the hospital setting/medical educational setting. And I have been friends with many a physician who have left their practice or even the medical field all together because of the stress. As a previous psychiatric nurse, I have witnessed and been supportive to both nurse and physician coming in for inpatient treatment for depression, substance, bipolar disorder, et cetera. Again, the days of out of control doctors are becoming less and less. Why?....because I think it eventually hits the facility pocketbook and impacts facility reputation....because patients see it and switch docs or don't return. I understand being therapeutic or taking a therapeutic stance with a patient or family member....but, it begs beyond the call of duty to deescalate a physician on a routine basis who clearly has personal issues. Again, this is happening less and less...and I am truly grateful in seeing this trend in the newer physicians.

[Dr.Nurse2b]

And just as a side note, many nurses do understand in some way the rigors and stress that physicians must face....they really do...especially in the hospital setting/medical educational setting. And I have been friends with many a physician who have left their practice or even the medical field all together because of the stress. As a previous psychiatric nurse, I have witnessed and been supportive to both nurse and physician coming in for inpatient treatment for depression, substance, bipolar disorder, et cetera. Again, the days of out of control doctors are becoming less and less. Why?....because I think it eventually hits the facilities pocketbook....because patients see it and switch docs or don't return. I understand being therapeutic or taking a therapeutic stance with a patient or family member....but, it begs beyond the call of duty to deescalate a physician on a routine basis who clearly has personal issues. Again, this is happening less and less...and I am truly grateful in seeing this trend in the newer physicians.

"I'm ****** off at your because you're ****** off at me"...

At the core...aren't we all like this? :nuke:

We all want to be accepted by our peers and by people in general. I have met docs that are wound up like a top and fly off the handle often...

I am the first person to suggest a hickory stick but as I get older I am starting to realize that perhaps my mother was right when she told me..."You get more flies with honey".

I still keep my stick handy but you must agree -- DOCS -- that a charming nurse - male or female - is hard to resist. They can yell all they want at me but eventually they will feel bad about themselves...its just natural...we all want to be loved and accepted by everyone...even doctors.

I've barked at one or two doctors maybe once or twice...they were shocked and I felt really bad afterwards...I have to believe they react the same way.

And for those who don't want to be loved...I got me a nice hickory stick for you! :chuckle Just kidding...

[embarrasingfield]

Hey I'll respond too. I'm not a male nurse but I like them. :thankya: I agree with another poster(s): I can see no possible benefit in tolerating such behavior from anyone. Its funny sometimes; I am a petite woman and known for being laid back (contrary to some of my posts on here.) So when I've been new to an area, physicians sometimes get a little confused about respecting me. But they always learn, right away.

Mos of them are respectful to start with. Then they learn to trust me and they are even better. The few that have been obnoxious, generally i repeat what I am saying, more matter of factly. If that doesn't work, I do it again. I usually am hoping others are in earshot, becasue I enjoy letting them look as stupid as they are acting. Almost everytime, they realize I am there to help, and am actually helping them at that moment, and they will calm down and thank me for the help.

I have never had one single physician be rude to me twice. It isn't necessary anywhere.

[dialysisguy]

never been yelled at:typing

[NexLvlDad]

It helps to be 6 ft and 200 lbs. It also help to know what you are talking about.