Do You Want Universal Healthcare?

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I know this topic has been discussed before on this site..but, I was curious for an updated response. How many of you would be willing to pay more taxes for universal healthcare? I find it egregious that the US has put a cost on maintaining/saving ones life! I traveled to Europe and the thought of them having to bring their checkbook to the hospital aroused literal laughs. It's the same notion that we'd have to whip out our debit card to firefighters before they turned the hoses on our burning homes. It's sad. I think the overall costs of UH would be beneficial...in fact, the raised taxes would still probably be lower than our rising premiums every 2 weeks! Thoughts?

Specializes in ER/Ortho.
ccolpeach,

You yourself say that you are having a hard situation! I feel for you and I hope it gets better. But yet you don't feel for immigrants who may be in the same situations as you or worse. :( why?I wish you luck! I give props to you for being a single momma...I hope we can all have equal compassion for others- regardless of race, sex, and class.

I do have compassion for immigrants, but I must admit I wrestle with it. On one hand if I see a family/child etc and their personal struggles then of course I do have compassion for them just like I did for the family in my story. On the other hand I do have issues with them being here at times. It's one of the few situations I have encountered where I feel I have the devil on one shoulder, and an angel on the other. They are everywhere here, and have pretty well taken over my city. This would not be bad, but the people in my neighborhood have refused to be good neighbors or citizens. They live 20 to a house, and have 20 cars. Since each house has parking for 3 they park in their front yard, and in the front of their neighbors homes. This means that when I come in with groceries I am forced to park down the block then walk to my home instead of parking in front of it. The people across the street keep chickens, roosters, and an occasional goat in their backyard. They throw large parties with 100's of people, a live band, and lots of drunk people, teens smoking pot in the front yard, and cut the head of the goat and cook it. There are so many children in the one house I have no idea, but the parents do not watch them or take responsibility for them. If they damage your property the parents refuse to pay for it. You can call the police, and they come out and fine them, but they just do it again. The police are always across the street anyway because the man beats his wife. They don't take care of their yard because its now a parking lot. At one point they had a red truck without wheels in their yard on cinderblocks. I called the city, and they moved it to their backyard (they have a chain link fence so its still an eyesore). Now they have the entire back of the truck filled with garbage. It's not just them, but dotted throughout my neighborhood making home values go down. The majority of families on our street allow their children to start driving at about 13 so its very dangerous, and they don't maintain minimum liability on their cars. Each day at noon the man across the street comes home for lunch in his pickup with about 30 rough looking men in the back. They then all pile out and sit in the yard under a tree playing massive bass enhanced spanish music, and drink beer. Even with my doors closed and other things going in my house you can hear BOOM BOOM BOOM. If you call the police they come out and fine them, but it doesn't stop them.

So basically they make my life miserable. I know that isn't an excuse. I know I would have compassion for an individual person, but as a whole I am annoyed.

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Specializes in Tele,CCU,ER.

coolpeach,

I agree somewhat with you. I only vouch for the immigrants that are here for a BETTER LIFE! I live in Los Angeles so SOME of my neighbors are like that and I am also annoyed because I don't accept drinking,drugs, or domestic violence. and because some of them are like this they make the rest of us look bad...!! If they are not here in the US to lead a good life, better than the one they had in their country, and contribute to society they shouldn't even be here. Still they may have no choice to which life they lead since they have less opportunities to advance. The communities immigrants live in are horrible- no schools...no parks...violence...:(

People like the ones you mentioned ( smoking pot, drinking,domestic violence, etc.) are found in different races and classes so it doesn't necessarily points to immigrants alone...

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Specializes in Day program consultant DD/MR.

I live in LA also. Hard for me to get a job because I am not bilingual. But I have seen so many immigrants work thier butts of to provide for thier families. They live 3 or 4 families sometime in a 1-2brm apt in order to give thier kids a better life. While I do not like all the obsticles that come on daily basis associate with immigrants they are humans and deserve dignity and respect just like those of us fotunate enough to be born here. I have 3 kids that I love to death and would not have them if my MIL did not come here illigally over 25yrs ago to give her 2 sons a better opportunity. All are US citizens now, my ex husband even served 8 yrs in the army while he was a permanent resident alien. Please as nurses treat all humans with respect regardles of thier status here in the US.

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Specializes in ICU/Critical Care.
I do have compassion for immigrants, but I must admit I wrestle with it. On one hand if I see a family/child etc and their personal struggles then of course I do have compassion for them just like I did for the family in my story. On the other hand I do have issues with them being here at times. It's one of the few situations I have encountered where I feel I have the devil on one shoulder, and an angel on the other. They are everywhere here, and have pretty well taken over my city. This would not be bad, but the people in my neighborhood have refused to be good neighbors or citizens. They live 20 to a house, and have 20 cars. Since each house has parking for 3 they park in their front yard, and in the front of their neighbors homes. This means that when I come in with groceries I am forced to park down the block then walk to my home instead of parking in front of it. The people across the street keep chickens, roosters, and an occasional goat in their backyard. They throw large parties with 100's of people, a live band, and lots of drunk people, teens smoking pot in the front yard, and cut the head of the goat and cook it. There are so many children in the one house I have no idea, but the parents do not watch them or take responsibility for them. If they damage your property the parents refuse to pay for it. You can call the police, and they come out and fine them, but they just do it again. The police are always across the street anyway because the man beats his wife. They don't take care of their yard because its now a parking lot. At one point they had a red truck without wheels in their yard on cinderblocks. I called the city, and they moved it to their backyard (they have a chain link fence so its still an eyesore). Now they have the entire back of the truck filled with garbage. It's not just them, but dotted throughout my neighborhood making home values go down. The majority of families on our street allow their children to start driving at about 13 so its very dangerous, and they don't maintain minimum liability on their cars. Each day at noon the man across the street comes home for lunch in his pickup with about 30 rough looking men in the back. They then all pile out and sit in the yard under a tree playing massive bass enhanced spanish music, and drink beer. Even with my doors closed and other things going in my house you can hear BOOM BOOM BOOM. If you call the police they come out and fine them, but it doesn't stop them.

So basically they make my life miserable. I know that isn't an excuse. I know I would have compassion for an individual person, but as a whole I am annoyed.

You're very nice. If it was me, I'd be over there slashing all the tires on their cars when they are sleeping.

Just kidding. :devil:

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Specializes in Tele,CCU,ER.

lvnandmom,

I agree with you!!! That's what I'm trying to say!!! My parents were immigrants and I grew up in South Central LA...it was so hard and I wish other could understand what we go through. As nurses we should advocate for those less fortunate..good luck with your career :)

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Specializes in ICU/Critical Care.

I realize that people who come here from other countries want a better life. It's a good thing. America is the melting pot. But I hate when people come here and from what Coolpeach described, have no respect for their neighbors and the community they live in. As soon as you get yourself through school and save some money, you could probably move somewhere a bit nicer.

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What? :( It is so hard to be an immigrant here in the US and even more when being attacked by others. I grew up in LA surrounded by immigrant families, including my own. Immigrants come here for a better life. No one would do the jobs they do...no one would work 12 hours making less than 10 dollars a day! They work basic jobs needed to drive this country (blue collar jobs)- why not give them healthcare? Why not help their children become positive members of society who them in the future can contribute? They drive without licenses because the laws won't change and they won't be given to them. They still have to work to feed their family here in the US and their family back in their home country! They need to drive...Im sorry :( My parents were immigrant and we suffered so much. We had to live on 800 bucks a month!!! with 500 for rent and the rest for food, clothes,bills, medical care, etc...Can you imagine? I'm glad I'm a nurse who can advocate for them...just my opinion hope its understandable. :) Thanks

I hear what you're saying, but struggle as well. I know to many folks who worked far to hard to jump through the hoops and immigrate legally. Folks who are here illegally make things harder for them, do not pay taxes, do not pay into the system and generally cause a drain on the system.

I agree that many immigrants work incredibly hard at jobs that Americans (for the most part) don't want to do. However, I think we need to find a way for these folks to be here LEGALLY. This would make them a part of the system, and it would give them the protection of the system (fair labor laws, OSHA protection, etc). Yes the laws need to change....that doesn't mean that they should be ignored until they're changed. I know folks are coming here to make a better life for themselves and their family....but I (as an American citizen) don't get to break the law to make myself a better life, and I don't understand why others coming to this country expect to be able to get away with it.

For some reason, working in this country illegally is a law that folks feel it's ok to look the other way for. I believe that the folks doing some of our physically hardest work deserve every protection of the law.....but no one should be above it.

Peace,

CuriousMe

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Specializes in Community, OB, Nursery.

The problem is that immigration law is not the same for all. You cannot get even a tourist visa to come here from Mexico if you don't have money. Forget about any other sort unless you are very rich or very talented, in which case your kids are not exactly starving anyway. There is not even a line for these people to get in - so how do we expect them to line up and come here legally? Our own ancestors didn't 'stay where they were and try to make things better' so why are we all of a sudden expecting others to do that?

My dh came here illegally 8+ years ago, and we have been married for 6.5 of those years. We pay taxes (!), we own a house, my dh speaks English, he has not used a dime of taxpayer money, and we have a child. We are trying to get his immigration stuff straight, and it is not a simple process. It is going to cost us thousands of dollars and still we are not guaranteed a thing. We are going to have our personal (financial, social, sexual, you name it) lives scrutinized by social workers and immigration paper-pushers and we are still not sure that it will work. We are doing the best we can to make things right and the fact that there is not a real, reasonable, viable way to do it fries me. If this is how it is for us, I cannot imagine what it is like for the average Mexican (or whatever nationality) citizen who doesn't have all those advantages.

My two cents from someone who's right smack dab in the middle of the debate.

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Specializes in L & D; Postpartum.

With all due respect, your DH did come here illegally. It SHOULD be difficult for him. He should not be able to "take cuts" in the line for becoming a citizen. No reason whatsoever for him to get in line before those who are going through the proper legal channels.

I'm sure he is the nicest person, that he is hard-working, that your family is a wonderful one. He still broke a law to be here. That in and of itself means, to me, that he is willing to take the associated risks.

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Specializes in Community, OB, Nursery.
With all due respect, your DH did come here illegally. It SHOULD be difficult for him. He should not be able to "take cuts" in the line for becoming a citizen. No reason whatsoever for him to get in line before those who are going through the proper legal channels.

I'm sure he is the nicest person, that he is hard-working, that your family is a wonderful one. He still broke a law to be here. That in and of itself means, to me, that he is willing to take the associated risks.

Point taken, and I'm not asking for anything special. But we are trying to do things the right way and it's not working. Nobody's asking for anything special, just something viable.

The other bit is that under immigration law, spouses of US citizens ARE given an unlimited number of visas. There is no cap. Had he come here on a visa and overstayed it (still would be here illegally) we would have no problem and he'd have his papers, even though he'd still be considered illegal. I'm telling you, immigration law is not fair. I do have a vested interest in it, but felt the exact same way before I married my dh. It just hits a bit closer to home now.

A friend of mine is Finnish (actually two friends, but that's beside the point) and everyone on Finnish soil gets healthcare without questions asked. Immigration status is not an issue. It does not matter how long the person has lived there. Finland has seen a recent increase in refugees from East Africa, but they get healthcare still.

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The problem is that immigration law is not the same for all. You cannot get even a tourist visa to come here from Mexico if you don't have money. Forget about any other sort unless you are very rich or very talented, in which case your kids are not exactly starving anyway. There is not even a line for these people to get in - so how do we expect them to line up and come here legally? Our own ancestors didn't 'stay where they were and try to make things better' so why are we all of a sudden expecting others to do that?

My dh came here illegally 8+ years ago, and we have been married for 6.5 of those years. We pay taxes (!), we own a house, my dh speaks English, he has not used a dime of taxpayer money, and we have a child. We are trying to get his immigration stuff straight, and it is not a simple process. It is going to cost us thousands of dollars and still we are not guaranteed a thing. We are going to have our personal (financial, social, sexual, you name it) lives scrutinized by social workers and immigration paper-pushers and we are still not sure that it will work. We are doing the best we can to make things right and the fact that there is not a real, reasonable, viable way to do it fries me. If this is how it is for us, I cannot imagine what it is like for the average Mexican (or whatever nationality) citizen who doesn't have all those advantages.

My two cents from someone who's right smack dab in the middle of the debate.

You're right of course, it's not the same for everyone. I don't know that it started that way though.....I'm guessing the percentage of folks who want a tourist visa from Mexico (who don't have a lot of money) that actually want to be tourists (ie not reside and work here) is not high.

The scrutiny of marriages between citizens and non-citizens of the US has also been increased because of the amount of people who have tried to gain citizenship that way (not that you're trying to do that with your dh....just speaking in general).

While it's true that this nation was founded by immigrants, I don't think we can compare that time to now? My family came over from Ireland, and went through Ellis Island. They came legally. The law is different now. I agree the laws need to be changed, but that doesn't mean we ignore it until it's changed. If I think my taxes are to high, am I allowed to just not pay them?

I have a friend (US citizen) who wanted to move to New Zealand. She wasn't able to because she couldn't get a work permit. That didn't mean that she went anyway and started working illegally. She certainly didn't go there illegally then complain that it was hard to become a legal citizen.

Peace,

CuriousMe

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Specializes in ER/Ortho.

Michigan RN, I grew up in this neighborhood. It's a middle class (Not upper, but not really lower) middle class neighborhood in the suburbs. Most houses are small 3 bedroom brick homes, with an occasional 4 bedroom or two story. We have all three levels of schools and a park right down the street. It had always been nice here. Then about 10 years ago Mexican immigrants started moving in. I think what happened was one person was legal, and had a home. That person helped out the relatives by allowing 20 or 30 at time to stay with him. Then they just sort of spread. Eventually one of those 30 rented a house 3 houses down, and he had 30 more relatives come to his house, and so on and so on and so on. The problem I have is that they come here and refuse to do what it takes to fit in the country. These folks in my area refuse to learn the language, and they almost give off the attitude that they are from Mexico so they do not have to obide by our rules, laws and customs. They just do whatever they want as if they are above the law. What's scary is pretty much they are allowed to do it.

My son Zac is 13, but when he was 2 weeks old we were involved in an auto accident. I was parked in front of a house (checking out a garage sale). We had just pulled up and turned the car off when a big pickup came flying out of no where and slammed into us. They then rode down the side of the car. The truck tried to drive off, but people from the garage sale ran out in front of his truck and stopped him, and someone called 911. When the police arrived the found the men in the truck could not speak english so they called for a spanish officer. This new policeman showed up and spoke to me, the witnesses, and the drivers. Then he told me that they were from Mexico. They did not have a license to drive, and therefor did not have ANY auto insurance at all. I was told they couldn't help it because they weren't legal, and they hadn't had time to go through the process of becoming legal since they just got here not to long ago. Then the policeman allowed these men to drive away. While I sit there injured with a 2 week old baby, and a destroyed car.

If I went out today with no license, registration or auto insurance, and slammed into someone, and then tried to hit and run do you think I would be free to leave the scene? NO they would arrest me, and more than likely tow my car.

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