Do You Want Universal Healthcare?

Published

I know this topic has been discussed before on this site..but, I was curious for an updated response. How many of you would be willing to pay more taxes for universal healthcare? I find it egregious that the US has put a cost on maintaining/saving ones life! I traveled to Europe and the thought of them having to bring their checkbook to the hospital aroused literal laughs. It's the same notion that we'd have to whip out our debit card to firefighters before they turned the hoses on our burning homes. It's sad. I think the overall costs of UH would be beneficial...in fact, the raised taxes would still probably be lower than our rising premiums every 2 weeks! Thoughts?

Nice post HM2. Kind of tired of having to continuously debunk misconceptions and fallacious ideas.

This is what i meant by blame the voters. We have politicians that don't really care or know what is going on voted in by citizens that either don't know or care. The problem is the people that don't know or care make up the majority.

Everything in the last 8 years has been an exercise of fallacious logic leading a country. To ruin I might add. This country is in worse shape than it has been in for a long time. Still conservatives continue to talk about responsibility and their taxes and their hard work. The hard work of conservatives and the GOP have failed horribly. It's about time we try something new. The worst that can happen is that we continue on the path the GOP has created. The best is that we can go back to the stability and booms always seen under Democrat rule.

Democratic Superiority, by the Numbers

I won't bother reposting the article here. Suffice it to say that for a long time Democrat presidents have been far superior in pretty much every category. The data that this claim is based on is public information so that may be why the GOP has never actually tried to deny these claims.

Republicans have done a historically horrendous job and the fact the people still support the party is mind boggling. People argue about small government, better responsibility, better this and better that but the fact remains that everything these conservative preach are better implemented by Democrats. The difference is that when republicans start to lean towards the Dems, the GOP brings out their old war chants. Abortion!!! Small Government!!! Personal Responsibility!!!

These are just words though. Empty, useless, meaningless words. You can't fool all of the people all of the time but apparently you can fool some of the people all of the time.

As conceited as it is, based on 40+ years of performance, anything conceived by Dems and opposed by the GOP is almost gauranteed to be good. Not that Dems are omiscient. Just that the numbers don't lie and when you have to bet the only thing that matters is the numbers.

Is Universal Healthcare a risk? Everything is a risk. Just remember conservatives. The odds are on the Dems side, not the GOP's. No argument you can bring to the table can change that. Actions speak louder than words and the actions of the GOP speak loudly enough...

Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in Maternal - Child Health.
The Commonwealth Fund has studied the various UHC models extensively. Believe it or not the best overall system is the NHS of the UK. We don't need to study this issue to death. THe evidence is already available for how to rebuild the system to assure higher quality, at lower cost and with fewer uninsureds.

Quote]

Viking,

We have discussed this ad nauseum, but I guess we have to do it again.

The countries whose UHC models you cite as glowing examples all exist in nations with different systems of economics, taxation, education, social services, etc. It is not reasonable to extrapolate their successes (or failures) to our nation.

Why do proponents of UHC consistently refuse to establish well-planned pilot studies comparing various methods of healthcare delivery and payment. If they are so darned sure that their system is best, they can make believers out of the rest of us by showing us (on a small scale) just how the system will work, how care will be delivered and financed and how it is superior to the current system.

I believe that the reason this has never been done is that the politicians know it can't be done to the satisfaction of the American taxpayers.

Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in ER/Ortho.

I have a friend who not only voted for Bush the first time, but gave him her vote the second time. She and her husband are NOT rich so I could not figure out why she was doing this. She finally told me it was because he believed in God, her parents voted for him, and he was patriotic. I couldn't believe this came from her mouth....she was a degreed teacher, my best friend, and NOT on drugs. She finally admitted a few months ago that she made a mistake, and would do better this time. When ever she would call me complaining about something I would tell her she voted for it.

Anyway, I had to get that off my chest. I also thought immigrants couldn't get welfare, but I might be wrong. I am in Texas and there are so many at this point they may have found a way around it.

I did run into a family who spoke limited english about a year ago. They were at the CVS asking the pharmacy for advice. There little boy (he looked about 10 or so) had broken his arm. They went to the ER, and did not have insurance. The ER x-rayed it, put it in a sling, and gave them the number to an ortho. I know the same thing happened when my son broke his leg. It was a Sat, and we followed up with the ortho on the following Monday for casting. Anyway, these people did not have insurance, and I assumed they didn't qualify for medicaid because they were immigrants. This little boy had a broken arm, and they had no way of getting any real care for it. The Er's here will simply immobilize it and send you to an ortho. I have never seen a free ortho so I have no idea what they were supposed to do. It seems like child abuse to allow a child to run around with an uncasted broken arm. On the other hand who is the abuser if the parents work 40 hours, don't have insurance, and can't afford care.

Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in L & D; Postpartum.

[quote=coolpeach;3023736

I did run into a family who spoke limited english about a year ago. They were at the CVS asking the pharmacy for advice. There little boy (he looked about 10 or so) had broken his arm. They went to the ER, and did not have insurance. The ER x-rayed it, put it in a sling, and gave them the number to an ortho. I know the same thing happened when my son broke his leg. It was a Sat, and we followed up with the ortho on the following Monday for casting. Anyway, these people did not have insurance, and I assumed they didn't qualify for medicaid because they were immigrants. This little boy had a broken arm, and they had no way of getting any real care for it. The Er's here will simply immobilize it and send you to an ortho. I have never seen a free ortho so I have no idea what they were supposed to do. It seems like child abuse to allow a child to run around with an uncasted broken arm. On the other hand who is the abuser if the parents work 40 hours, don't have insurance, and can't afford care.

Where I live, they would be classified as "private pay" but the facility eats the bill, because there's no way to get the money out of the family. So we all wind up paying for them. Now I MIGHT feel better about paying IF the family were legally here, but have a harder time if they are here illegally.

I'd rather decide where my tax dollars go, say to people who are truly disabled, instead of those who just to be inactive (as in working, looking for work, learning how to eat properly, etc.)

Up Vote Up Vote ×

I can think of at least 3 states that have achieved near universal coverage through enlightened policy. (MN, WI and IA.) On the federal level we have Tricare, Veterans Health care system and FEHBP. Each of these systems delivers high quality care at a LOWER price to their members. They also hold health care inflation down to the single digits. For that matter the VA system is the best in the US and delivers better care than MAYO or Johns Hopkins at a lower price.

We don't need pilot studies. To argue otherwise is just obstructionistic. We do need substantive reform both in finance and in coverage. The data on HDHP shows that they deliver worse care at a higher average price per subscriber. (See the Commonwealth Fund)

Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in Critical care, tele, Medical-Surgical.
please don't presume to know my opinions of unrelated topics. to set the record straight, i have problems with the government sinking even one dollar into anything that is not evidence-based.

as educated healthcare practitioners, we provide evidence-based care to our patients. to do less equals negligence.

we are due the same respect from the politicians who spend our tax money. responsible taxpayers should demand it! no one, republican or democrat has produced a pilot study comparing and contrasting the costs and benefits of a number of different approaches to funding government healthcare. until someone does, and demonstrates the overall benefit of uhc, i will not support it.

ftr, i predicted the mess that medicare part d has become, and opposed it from the get-go.

what does "evidence based" mean?

i have seen no scientific studies that scripting, computerized charting, pyxis, omnicell, nursing care plan software, wireless tracking devices, vocera, clinical restructuring, management consultant firms such as "six sigma), e-icu, telemedicine, "labor-saving" artificial intelligence, protocol, diagnostic and prognostic expert systems and such save lives or provide comfort for our patients.

nursing practice encompasses and requires the registered nurse to evaluate and make decisions for the patient's health care based on numerous variables including direct requests of the patient or the patient's family, physical signs or symptoms, the individual patient's particular personal context and diagnostic information that is obtained through various methods including the nurse's five senses.

there is scientific evidence that richer staffing saves lives.

and evidence that in countries with universal healthcare most people are healthier and live longer.

Up Vote Up Vote ×

Why didn't you cut them a check for $500 so they could afford the ortho visit?

I have a friend who not only voted for Bush the first time, but gave him her vote the second time. She and her husband are NOT rich so I could not figure out why she was doing this. She finally told me it was because he believed in God, her parents voted for him, and he was patriotic. I couldn't believe this came from her mouth....she was a degreed teacher, my best friend, and NOT on drugs. She finally admitted a few months ago that she made a mistake, and would do better this time. When ever she would call me complaining about something I would tell her she voted for it.

Anyway, I had to get that off my chest. I also thought immigrants couldn't get welfare, but I might be wrong. I am in Texas and there are so many at this point they may have found a way around it.

I did run into a family who spoke limited english about a year ago. They were at the CVS asking the pharmacy for advice. There little boy (he looked about 10 or so) had broken his arm. They went to the ER, and did not have insurance. The ER x-rayed it, put it in a sling, and gave them the number to an ortho. I know the same thing happened when my son broke his leg. It was a Sat, and we followed up with the ortho on the following Monday for casting. Anyway, these people did not have insurance, and I assumed they didn't qualify for medicaid because they were immigrants. This little boy had a broken arm, and they had no way of getting any real care for it. The Er's here will simply immobilize it and send you to an ortho. I have never seen a free ortho so I have no idea what they were supposed to do. It seems like child abuse to allow a child to run around with an uncasted broken arm. On the other hand who is the abuser if the parents work 40 hours, don't have insurance, and can't afford care.

Up Vote Up Vote ×

Yep Tricare holds down costs alright so much so that many physicians will not take tricare patients because the reimbursements are so lousy.

I can think of at least 3 states that have achieved near universal coverage through enlightened policy. (MN, WI and IA.) On the federal level we have Tricare, Veterans Health care system and FEHBP. Each of these systems delivers high quality care at a LOWER price to their members. They also hold health care inflation down to the single digits. For that matter the VA system is the best in the US and delivers better care than MAYO or Johns Hopkins at a lower price.

We don't need pilot studies. To argue otherwise is just obstructionistic. We do need substantive reform both in finance and in coverage. The data on HDHP shows that they deliver worse care at a higher average price per subscriber. (See the Commonwealth Fund)

Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in ER/Ortho.
Where I live, they would be classified as "private pay" but the facility eats the bill, because there's no way to get the money out of the family. So we all wind up paying for them. Now I MIGHT feel better about paying IF the family were legally here, but have a harder time if they are here illegally.

I'd rather decide where my tax dollars go, say to people who are truly disabled, instead of those who just to be inactive (as in working, looking for work, learning how to eat properly, etc.)

The ER facility would eat the bill for the X-rays, Ace bandage, and sling, but what about the rest of his care. There is no ortho that I know of who would schedule this kid for an appointment with no insurance, or without a MAJOR down payment. I can almost promise they just let the kid walk around with the ace bandage and sling until it felt better, and never had it set or cast. It's more than likely healed incorrectly and will cause him major problems later on, and then he will need surgery to correct it. I have a real problem with illegals too. They are all over the place here. They made it harder for my teens to find work. A few years ago one of them even hit me with no insurance, no green card, and no drivers license so I understand what your saying. On the other hand I had to see any child go without basic medical care.

Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in ER/Ortho.

CRNA,

I could not cut them a check for $500 because I am poor single mom/starving student who is barely able to provide the little she does for her own children. I left a domestic violence situation with 3 children, and nothing but the clothes on our backs. I have been able to overcome because I have family who have been there to help me. Even though I am dirt poor until I graduate I give back to my community. I volunteer through my church one Sat a month cleaning up old neighborhoods. I also volunteer at the domestic violence center working with children who live in the shelter. Last Christmas I noticed a family who was having a hard time, and I knew that Christmas for their two children would be next to nothing. I purchased a Doll for the girl, a giant truck for the boy. I wrapped them, put from santa on the tag, left them on the porch, rang the bell and left. My children also go out of their way to help others who are in need. I think this spirit of giving to others who a big part of what has driven me to become a nurse. It is also a big part of who I am as a person, and without it I would be much less of everything that I am or ever want to be. If we can have so little and yet find it in our heart to have compassion for others in need why are you so mean spirited and cold hearted to others less fortunate. By the grace of god go I.....

Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in Tele,CCU,ER.

What? :( It is so hard to be an immigrant here in the US and even more when being attacked by others. I grew up in LA surrounded by immigrant families, including my own. Immigrants come here for a better life. No one would do the jobs they do...no one would work 12 hours making less than 10 dollars a day! They work basic jobs needed to drive this country (blue collar jobs)- why not give them healthcare? Why not help their children become positive members of society who them in the future can contribute? They drive without licenses because the laws won't change and they won't be given to them. They still have to work to feed their family here in the US and their family back in their home country! They need to drive...Im sorry :( My parents were immigrant and we suffered so much. We had to live on 800 bucks a month!!! with 500 for rent and the rest for food, clothes,bills, medical care, etc...Can you imagine? I'm glad I'm a nurse who can advocate for them...just my opinion hope its understandable. :) Thanks

Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in Tele,CCU,ER.

ccolpeach,

You yourself say that you are having a hard situation! I feel for you and I hope it gets better. But yet you don't feel for immigrants who may be in the same situations as you or worse. :( why?I wish you luck! I give props to you for being a single momma...I hope we can all have equal compassion for others- regardless of race, sex, and class.

Up Vote Up Vote ×
+ Join the Discussion