Do You Want Universal Healthcare?

[DanFNP]

I know this topic has been discussed before on this site..but, I was curious for an updated response. How many of you would be willing to pay more taxes for universal healthcare? I find it egregious that the US has put a cost on maintaining/saving ones life! I traveled to Europe and the thought of them having to bring their checkbook to the hospital aroused literal laughs. It's the same notion that we'd have to whip out our debit card to firefighters before they turned the hoses on our burning homes. It's sad. I think the overall costs of UH would be beneficial...in fact, the raised taxes would still probably be lower than our rising premiums every 2 weeks! Thoughts?

[coolpeach]

On one hand I would love to see UHC, but only if it could be done in a way that would allow for quality health care. I have recently had experience with helping a family member who does not have insurance, and had to get a low cost health plan through our county hospital. I am afraid that UHC may mimic that experience. I have given him rides, and went with him to help him navigate the system. Here is what I have seen......

He has a primary care physician whom is can see for a $10 copay. The primary care Dr. basically only treats common colds etc. If you have high blood pressure, shoulder pain, headaches or anything other than a minor generic illness you are sent to a speciality clinic.

So for example he has high blood pressure, shoulder pain, hand pain, and headaches. After going to the primary care Dr. she referred him to the cardiology clinic, Ortho clinic A for the shoulder, Ortho clinic D for the hand, and the neurology clinic. Each clinic visit has a co pay of $10. They do not allow you to schedule your appointments, and send you a letter which tells you what day and time. They may only do cardiology in the afternoons on Tuesdays. This means if you go to school, work or don't have transportation on that day if your reshedule it will still be on that day and around that time.

In addition, each clinic visit is scheduled for about 3 to 6 months away. So if you are having high blood pressure or chest pain it will take 3 to 6 months to see a Dr. to find out why.

Once you finally get in to see the clinic they basically listen to what you say, and then refer you for more testing (x-ray, MRI, stress echo) etc. He pays $25 for each test. Again an appointment time is mailed to you, and it takes about 2 months to get in and get that done. Once you have completed the test you must go back to the clinic (another $10), and again you are looking at a about 2 months. If more tests are needed the process is repeated.

You can see how it can easily take a year or more just to find out why you have high BP and chest pain, and get treatment or meds for it, and by then you could have a heart attack and die.

In addition to all of this the actual appointment time is horrible. When I took him we generally waited between 3 and 5 hours to see the Dr. They seriously overbook, and a lot of times we had to wait while standing in a corner in a very overcrowded room. I have seen the elderly standing, a man holding his own dialysis bag standing, and really ill people forced to stand for hours. Once you see the Dr. you sit in the waitng room for another hour or so waiting for your discharge and prescriptions. If you have an 8am appointment you can count on being there a lot of times until 2 or 3 in the afternoon.

The hosptial is always crazy, and the bathrooms are really horrible. I couldn't even use them. There was urine in the floor, toilet paper everywhere...it was nasty. There are always homeless people milling around and begging for money even inside the hospital. I was told that the wait in the ER is even worse. That is often takes up to 24 hours to get triaged, and 48 to 72 hours to see a Dr.

I am afraid that our UHC would be similar and I would hate that. I am spoiled and like my less than 30 min wait time, clean bathrooms, and quality care. If they could do it while preserving the above I would be all for it.

[loriangel14, RN]

I have no idea why people think that that is an example of UHC. That is nothing like it.

[RN1982]

I don't think anyone should be associating nasty hospital bathrooms with UHC. That's got nothing to do with it.

[coolpeach]

Well at first I didn't think that, but after debating it with many different people over the last few years I have it in the back of my mind. Everyone I spoke to who was really against it cited that as part of their reason. I have even been told that "I have a friend in England, Canada etc and they said.......". Then I get tales of long waits (months) for appointments, long waits once at the Dr, and unclean facilities.

I actually have a friend in England who says she is fine with the system they have, but of course she has never been anywhere else so she has nothing to compare it to.

I would like UHC, but UHC where I can get in to see the Dr the same day or next day if ill. A wait time of less than 2 hours, and follow up and testing on important symptoms within a few weeks at least.

[jacqui]

Thank goodness I have no idea what its like to live in a country that pays for medical care. I guess I take our free health service for granted, and reading this makes me realise and the other messages, how lucky we are.

[Multicollinearity, BSN, RN]

Coolpeach,

My Canadian relatives have quicker access to medical care than I do in the United States, with private insurance.

Another thought about another type of system - if you know much about French society, you know they wouldn't tolerate the system you described above - not for a second.

[Multicollinearity, BSN, RN]

I'm actually pretty conservative when it comes to government fiscal policy. I'd like to see a weed-wacker taken to tons of government programs and spending. This is where I line up with my conservative friends.

However, health care I feel quite differently about. Health care is resistant to the supply/demand capitalistic model. Also, I find it interesting that so many just say something to the effect of "go buy health insurance and be responsible." Most people who have always had employer health insurance are unaware of just how skimpy the coverage is for individual, non-employer health insurance, and how anyone can be flat out declined for coverage or have pre-existing conditions excluded from coverage. This depends on the state you are in since insurance is regulated by the states, with some Federal laws applying. In addition, with more and more employers declining to offer health insurance coverage to employees, more are left without coverage and unable to buy it on their own.

Only seven states require insurers to accept all applicants, although they can still exclude pre-existing conditions from coverage for a certain period of time. And you know what? They have to be able to do that under the current system because otherwise many people would wait until they got sick to apply for coverage and start paying in the system. This is called adverse selection.

We cannot distinguish those who have fallen under hard times and have been unable to afford insurance from the free-loaders. We just can't. In this nation, it doesn't 'sit right' to give someone a death sentence because they let their insurance lapse or had their coverage terminated, for whatever the reason.

Let's say you have followed every part of the Federal HIPAA law (HIPAA applies to health insurance insurability as well) and you apply for a health insurance policy.

Here's a gander at the premium rates for those with pre-existing conditions seeking to do the responsible thing:

http://www.azblue.com/pdfs/health-plans/under65/Individual/084%20-%20IndvPortabilityCvg.pdf

This is the least expensive coverage in my state for guaranteed coverage under HIPAA, where pre-existing conditions are covered if you have exhausted your COBRA coverage for 18 months without a break in coverage.

For a 40 year old female, with a $1000 deductible, the monthly premium is $1038. For a 60 year old male, the monthly premium is $2067. Pre-existing conditions like type 2 diabetes or even taking more than one psych drug can exclude people from the cheaper plans and push you into this type of jacked-up premium plan. All this type of plan does is protect the assets of the affluent who can afford these policies. But this was congress' answer to guaranteeing health insurance coverage.

This is a common insurance scenario. My state is not unique.

Let's look at this another way. Most of us accept that public education is vital to our society. How much sense would it make to require educational payments to attend school tied to parents' employment benefits? And then let's say a parent cannot get tuition coverage for their child's education and tries to buy into a plan on their own, only to find out the cost is triple if their child is bad at math (i.e. "pre-existing condition"). The parent would then be told the only way of getting his or her child into a school would be to quit his or her job and lose everything owned, to qualify for government aid (medicaid comparison). Doesn't this sound insane?

This is a clumsy comparison, but I think it sheds some light on how screwy our current system of attaching health insurance to employment is.

The current system rewards corporate profits at the expense of human lives. When will Americans get it that we spend far more on health care than other counties and have less to show for it?

[oopie41]

I have been a nurse for 40 years--I am still working. An absolute "yes" to this question. I have taken care of too many people unable to pay for just their meds when discharged--usually the elderly. I believe it is a national shame to be without Universal Healthcare.

[jacqui]

I agree, and feel uncomfortable about paying for a health service, and all the insurance system that who have in the USA. I guess though you dont know any different. I have worked both in the UK and the France and both are excellent in regarding of universal healthcare

[herring_RN, ASN, BSN]

But in Canada you wouldn't wait months if you found a lump.Matter of days, has been all the breast cancer survivors I know had to wait.

I know a nurse here in the United States who was insured. Her mother and aunt had died of breast cancer. Her older sister is a breast cancer surviver.

She felt a "tug" and went to the doctor. He ordered a mammogram. The insurance company denied it because she had one at age 40 and don't need them yearly until age 50.

She paid for her own ($80.00). Insurance paid for her double mastectomies for the cancer the computer program determined she didn't need to be screened for.

So IF she had not been a well informed nurse with the money to pay she could be dead.

She works full time as an expert nurse on the night shift and part time as a clinical instructor.

[madwife2002, BSN, RN]

My friend in the UK went to her Dr on a Monday c/o feeling weak and not eating-she had blood tests and went back to the DR on wednesday. Thursday she was admitted, friday she was diagnosed with CA and by monday she commenced on chemo.

All paid for by socialised medicine.

All childbirth is free, you even have your own midwife assigned to you. Post natal care is in your house for up to 6 weeks depending on requirements and is daily for the first 5 days

[tanthalas]

Wait, what?

Americans have to pay for childbirth???