Do you think im crazy for my nurse aspiration?

x_factor · Dec 9, 2011

You mention that the local university for a BSN is $40,000, but you are looking to take out 40K to get into the ASN program. In that case, I'd just go for the BSN.

nursewannabe2013 · Dec 9, 2011

I am not attending an ASN program. I'm applying to ABSN only...ASN isn't an option for me. No way I'd pay 40K for an associates degree

x_factor · Dec 9, 2011

D'oh! Apparently my brain skipped over the B's in your post, sorry about that.

$40,000 seems steep, and quite honestly $90,000 is a TON of debt to be paying back post-graduation between both of your loans. I'd personally avoid anywhere near that amount of money hanging over me for decades to come, but that's just me.

plasmatix · Dec 9, 2011

....SO as you can see I have a plan, but you know there's still a lot of worry since nothing's guaranteed....BUT I REALLY WANT TO BE A NURSE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!The question is, do you think im crazy for this amount of debt to be a nurse??....

I don't think your mental health status is a factor in this equation. Nor is your "dream to be a nurse", although I confess to wondering what you were "following" while accumulating $40,000 in student loan debt for bachelor's and master's degrees unrelated to nursing.

Re: your last paragraph, NO, you DON'T have a plan. A "plan" should be based on facts and on sound information; it should include costs, both existing and projected, that are based on accurate calculations; and present a thorough examination of all contingencies.

What you've presented here is evidence of a total lack of concern over the responsibility for your existing substantial debt, while figuring out how you can hit the American taxpayers up for another fifty- or sixty-grand. You mentioned that you've read "all the posts here about ADN vs BSN", but it's readily apparent you've skipped over all of them that deal with the NONEXISTENT "critical shortage of nurses".

I don't know how old you are, but your post appears to have been written by a twenty-year-old who's lived a sheltered and indulged existence. You start out with a kindergarten-worthy rant about the application process for the FREE money you "need" to follow your dream, and then follow that up with a mish-mash of numbers that appear to have come from an Excel toilet-paper spreadsheet, along with a lot of wishful thinking.

Your statement, "Sure you accrue more interest with this plan but I don't really care about length of time to pay it off as long as I have a low payment each month, I'm fine with it" sums it up nicely. Personal responsibility is SOOOOO overrated.

If you've just woken up, and it really IS your dream to be a nurse, here's what you need to do before you make any more attempts to pickpocket the American taxpayers:

Find out everything about your existing debt: principal, interest rate (current & any projected adjustments), payment adjustment date and amount, amount of additional interest that's accrued due to reduced pmt amts.
Find out where jobs exist for new grad nurses, and what they are actually paid - after-tax, take-home amount. Take a sample of thirty metropolitan areas across the country, since you will probably have to relocate by the time you graduate.
Then calculate what your payments will be on that $90K+ and all that accrued interest will be, WITHOUT any magic government programs. Even if they're available at that time, reduced pmts are typically limited to 2 or 3 years....and the interest clock continues to run on overtime during that period. Chances are very strong that your loan payment could suck up 2/3 of your take-home pay (or even more).
Forget the HRSA Program. If you aren't capable of reading it properly, applying for it will prove even more challenging.

I'm sorry if I appear to be harsh and uncaring. Perhaps it comes from my inability these days to escape the barrage of news stories and videos of young able adults angry about the enormous amounts of student debt they are carrying. So take it as a sign of my caring when I advise you, strongly, not to take out additional debt to attend nursing school.

You can always satisfy your need to help people by volunteering at a community hospital, or a local LTC facility, and learn an awful lot in the process.

Iridescent Orchid, CNA, LPN · Dec 9, 2011

There are students who have racked up a bit more than 90K, I've noticed that around here and there. However, it's not like it matters, the amount of loans you take out. It's not like it's free money that your taking. It's deemed as "free" for the time-being, but every cent is paid back, plus a great amount of interest in the end. I don't get the big deal? Yeah, students complain about their debt, so what...almost everyone complains about bills and various other problems in their lives. It happens, it's life. If people want to add more on their plate, let them.

Some others seem to want to go out on a overbearing rant simply because you may not have stated every single detail of your plan and just covered the basics and to them it may have seemed irrational and incorrect, for whatever reasons, however...it's still your business and you're here to talk about you plans! I wish you the best of luck and obtaining your nursing degree, no matter the debt or hardships through it! Pay back what you can afford monthly, $500 is substantial. It's not like you're trying to pay the complete bare minimum. That's why loans have a great amount of repayment time...people can't usually shell out $1,000+ a month on it...seriously, everyone has different plans and different situations and that is all it comes down to. Do what you feel you need to! :) I wouldn't worry about the talk along the way if you have any other encounters such as this. As long as you have no doubts in this decision (because it is a major one) then go for it!

lilys · Dec 9, 2011

No it isn't crazy at all. Don't listen to someone else who tells you it is crazy. It is what YOU want to do. What kind of work can you get into with your MS? There are also loan repayment programs through employers should you find one who'd take you in. There are options out there and who cares about this tax payer mumbo jumbo, congress and politicians go spend the tax money on donuts, expensive handbags (Palin), and war. You are putting the money towards something much more justifiable and noble. If someone is so concerned about tax payer money I suggest they lobby congress and other politicians for real and actual changes, not one aspiring medical student.

carbon86 · Dec 9, 2011

There are options out there and who cares about this tax payer mumbo jumbo, congress and politicians go spend the tax money on donuts, expensive handbags (Palin), and war.

It's $16 muffins lilly, get it right next time (j/k lol). To the OP- I'm not sure where you're located, or if you have a family/kids, but in my neck of the woods an associates degree cost about $13,000 ( plus books and misc also not including pre-reqs)), and if you do the accelerated program you can be done in 2 years. I realize you want the BSN, but with your previous degree it would probably take a very short amount of time to complete the RN-BSN bridge. You would incur a lot less debt, and the hospital that you work for would likely pay for you to bridge your degree.

Trauma Columnist · Dec 9, 2011

Please realize that when you post on the internet ASKING FOR ADVICE, you might not always get the answer you want.

You are free to take advice or leave it. However, I'll be honest here, sometimes when I get advice that I at first don't agree with, after thoughtful consideration, I realize it might be worthwhile to consider it.

crittytn · Dec 9, 2011

Trying to minimize the amount of student loans is advisable, however. I think the financial advisors (not the ones at schools, though!) recommend the max you take out in student loans be the salary you expect to make in your career. So, if you were expecting to make $50K, you would want to limit your student loan amounts to that.

Of course, someone should have told me that 14 years ago when I went to law school that I'm still paying for. I'm evaluating whether I'm going to pay nursing school out of pocket or just take out enough to cover the tuition (it's a public university I'm looking at, so not too bad). But that's a numbers evaluation I'll make very carefully now knowing what I know from previous experience! But take it from someone who used her student loans to live on (you're not allowed to work your first year of law school) and try to either not do that at all or take out the smallest amount possible without starving.

I know at 26 you feel very old, but I can tell you the difference from my mid-20s to my mid-30s in seeing the ramifications of choices I made in my mid-20s is mind blowing. I know the ranting post seems rude and offensive, but one thing I've learned is to read between the lines and see what you can take away from that sort of stuff.

What I read in that post is that perhaps you're relying on a lot of what-ifs to occur. I think it would be helpful to sit down and evaluate all the numbers WITHOUT your what-ifs. Turn your worst-case scenario--no grants, scholarships, work program, taking out living expenses--and predict ahead to see how feasible it all is with those numbers. Sure, you can pay $500 a month, but how long will it take you to pay that off? And what happens if you don't get a job right out of nursing school? What happens if it's a lower-paying job than expected? So perhaps change your perspective to look at the negative what-ifs and not only see the positive what-ifs. That should balance out your cost-benefit analysis.

healthyanalyst · Dec 9, 2011

couple things about this post...

1) I don't understand how the OP is not being responsible? He/she is paying their debt and plans to continue paying it.

2) I don't see why people consider loans "free money". Nothing is free, You have to pay it back with interest

3) As far as the nonexistent nurse shortage...okay, the OP will have to compete with others in the field JUST LIKE any other career. No one should expect to just walk into a job in any career field. It seems like the OP just wants to really be a nurse. She/he mentioned having a good current salary so I don't think she's looking to just get into a career where there's a significant need.

4) I think the majority of people (unless their parents pay for it or they are very well off) used some type of student loan to pay for college. Not everyone can afford it

5) " kindergarten-worthy rant" and "mish-mash of numbers that appear to have come from an Excel toilet-paper spreadsheet" ---jeez somebody is having a bad day. totally unnecessary and plain mean. People shoudn't be allowed to write stuff like this when people ask for advice.

People can be so harsh and criticizing. Nursewannabe, do what's best for you. If you want to be a nurse, go for it. I'm sure you're not excited about the amount of debt. Just think it over very carefully before making a decision. I agree with another poster about not letting your debt outweigh your income.

Good luck!

plasmatix · Dec 10, 2011

Apparently I have offended some of the more delicate sensibilities here in the section for student- & school-related posts. I am a bit more accustomed to the rough-and-tumble atmosphere of "general discussion" posting area; however, it was not my intention to hurt or discourage the OP. But post-secondary education requires serious academic and financial preparation and planning, especially on your third-go-around, and what I found in the OP's post was more akin to "I'm hoping...".

But permit me to address the issues some of you have raised:

"However, it's not like it matters, the amount of loans you take out. It's not like it's free money that your taking....every cent is paid back, plus a great amount of interest in the end. I don't get the big deal?" Well, yeah, it DOES matter, and it IS a big deal. Every cent DOES NOT get paid back, not by a long shot. Read the info I've included on some of the massive costs being incurred in the name of "education" these days.

"Pay back what you can afford monthly, $500 is substantial. It's not like you're trying to pay the complete bare minimum. That's why loans have a great amount of repayment time...people can't usually shell out $1,000+ a month on it..." Twisted logic aside, when one enters into a formal agreement to borrow money, for ANY purpose, he/she is OBLIGATED to pay that money back as stated in the contract. The borrower cannot arbitrarily choose to make payments in smaller amounts than that for which the contract calls. The time to decide that you can't afford $1000 a month on payments is BEFORE you agree to the terms and sign the contract.

That being said, the OP has stated that she pays $500/mo for her $40,000 school loan, and I have no reason to believe that she is not telling the truth.

"There are options out there and who cares about this tax payer mumbo jumbo....." Just a guess on my part, but I'm thinking perhaps someone who actually PAYS taxes might have a little more skin in the game.

"I don't understand how the OP is not being responsible? He/she is paying their debt and plans to continue paying it." Except during the time she's back in school for yet another degree, while incurring another $50K in taxpayer-sponsored debt.

"I don't see why people consider loans "free money". Nothing is free, You have to pay it back with interest" That, too, was always my understanding. However, the rapidly rising student loan default rates seem to indicate that others don't share our interpretation.

"I think the majority of people (unless their parents pay for it or they are very well off) used some type of student loan to pay for college. Not everyone can afford it." Obvious point. My only question is why did you feel compelled to make it?

" kindergarten-worthy rant" and "mish-mash of numbers that appear to have come from an Excel toilet-paper spreadsheet" Actually, all things considered, I think I demonstrated great restraint.....Okay, I'll agree with your assessment, as long as you'll promise me that you'll use the phrase, "---jeez somebody is having a bad day. totally unnecessary and plain mean", to respond to the first attending that bawls you out during clinicals.

"People shoudn't be allowed to write stuff like this when people ask for advice." Seriously, pay attention to the rest of the post; perhaps you'll see that I gave some very good advice.

"If you want to be a nurse, go for it." I don't have an issue with the OP becoming a nurse. I have a problem with her continuing to collect degree after degree on the taxpayer's dime, at the same time she is talking about how she needs reduced payment arrangements.

"People can be so harsh and criticizing." Being realistic, and asking tough questions should not be equated with being harsh and critical. If you honestly believe this to be true, you could be facing a very difficult adjustment when you enter nursing.

I'm sorry if some were offended by what they saw as my insensitivity. However, none of you had the maturity to address me directly, nor did you come armed with any documentation or information with which you could justify your "issues".

Post-secondary education in this country is a privilege, not a right. Today's students are fortunate to have financing sources available to help them bankroll the significant expenses associated with college. However, it is not a bottomless well, and students should not treat it as such. Pursuing post-secondary education requires preparation, it requires advance planning, and I see nothing improper or insensitive in pointing this out.

Some facts about government-sponsored (and, yes, TAYPAYER-funded) student grants and loans:

In 2000-01, academic year, total undergrad enrollment was 19 million; ten years later, it had increased by 37%, to 26 million undergrads.
In 2000-01, academic year, Pell Grants were awarded to 20% of all undergraduate students (3.8 million awards). Ten years later (2010-11), 35% of all undergrads were receiving Pell Grants (9.1 million awards). The limit of the Pell award has been increased to $5550.
High undergrad enrollment does not translate into a degreed population. For instance, by 2009, only 15% of all undergraduate students who had entered postsecondary institutions in academic year 2003-2004, had completed an accredited 4-year degree program.
Federal student aid for the academic year 2003-2004 alone totaled just under $88 billion. By 2009, it had risen to $117 billion.
In 2009-10, the 12% of FTE students enrolled in for-profit institutions (like the University of Phoenix and DeVry) received 26% of the government-sponsored Stafford Loans, compared to 9% for the public two-year (community) colleges that enroll 27% of all FTE students.
The last figures available (2009) for college loan show that defaults have risen to almost 9%. For-profit colleges have nearly half of all student loan defaults, despite only enrolling 10% of the nations college students.

For those who insist that loans are "paid back 100%", keep in mind that those same funds that are "invested" in students (many of whom who are on their 3rd or 4th degree, or even worse, never manage to complete their degree programs) could be placed in investment vehicles that would pay 2 to 3 times the interest paid by student borrowers. Also remember that, for many borrowers, interest on these loans is tax-deductible, offsetting the costs for borrowers while resulting in a substantial loss of tax revenue by the U.S. Treasury ($14.7 billion in 2009).

Don't get me wrong: I am ALL for education (and I mean education in the form of actual acquisition of knowledge, not simply another piece of paper), and we need to raise the quality and accessibility of education at all levels in the United States to ensure a productive and a secure existence in the future. But students who continue to borrow dangerously high amounts to finance degree after degree are unwittingly putting themselves and others in a hazardous position. The lender structure for student loans changed significantly in the mid-aughts, and students no longer have many of the consumer protections that existed prior to the privatization of many of the lending mechanisms. Private lenders are now free to raise your rates and principal to astronomical amounts that couldn't be retired in a 200-year lifetime. They can, and are, utilizing measures that can endanger a delinquent student's professional and personal reputation, and ability to earn a living, purchase a car and home, and raise a family.

Moreover, students need to accept responsibility for their own obligations, and their own lives. Yes, I'm a member of the "Baby Boom" generation, and, no, I didn't cause your problems or those at the root of the current economic crisis. I know that many young adults are angry because they can't get jobs; however, the truth of the matter is that, in my lifetime, it's NEVER been easy to get a good job right out of college. So you may have to take a job at Starbucks, or Walmart, or even end up detasseling corn in Iowa in the summer while you're looking for a better job. And while there is nothing wrong with following your dreams, there is a major problem with expecting other people to foot the bill while you test-drive several versions. And that includes expecting taxpayers to finance degree after degree after degree, in the absence of any return on their investment.