Do NY Nursing Schools (ADN/BSN) Help You Find Jobs?

everlongRN · Jul 15, 2010

In a nutshell, yes and no (I'm sure this wasn't the answer you were looking for). With the market the way it is, they do whatever they can. Career fairs at the colleges are becoming less and less, and when they do have them, most students are left empty (b/c of lack of exprience and/or degree).

The only schools that are obligated to provide career counseling are "for profit" schools, like the ones you see advertised on TV. There is only 1 for profit nursing school in NY, and I doubt that have any special/magical way of getting a new RN a job (especially since it is an AND program).

As far as a school like Beth Israel, it seems weird, but not impossible. St Vincents was doing it, before both the school and hospital closed. Its about supply and demand.

PacoUSA, BSN, RN · Jul 15, 2010

In a nutshell, yes and no (I'm sure this wasn't the answer you were looking for). With the market the way it is, they do whatever they can. Career fairs at the colleges are becoming less and less, and when they do have them, most students are left empty (b/c of lack of exprience and/or degree).
The only schools that are obligated to provide career counseling are "for profit" schools, like the ones you see advertised on TV. There is only 1 for profit nursing school in NY, and I doubt that have any special/magical way of getting a new RN a job (especially since it is an AND program).
As far as a school like Beth Israel, it seems weird, but not impossible. St Vincents was doing it, before both the school and hospital closed. Its about supply and demand.

Well, to be honest, I expected the reply you provided and I thank you for taking the time to do so. I just wanted to get an idea of what was happening and you did that. Was not expecting exact answers but was looking for honest ones. I am comforted to know however that schools are doing what they can, that they are doing something and not sitting back and giving up.

guiltysins · Jul 17, 2010

Beth Isreal is actually one of the most popular nursing schools in the city. They've had an ADN program for years and I'm assuming that's why they haven't changed it yet. It'd probably cost too much to make it a BSN program and with all the RN-BSN programs out there they don't really have to. Seems ironic that they prefer BSN's but their own school is for ADN's I agree. However, those graduates don't get guaranteed jobs just for being aligned with the hospital program, the only perk they have is that they do all of their clinicals in their hospital so maybe they have a better chance at networking.

My school does have a career fair maybe once a year for health profession students, but you have to realize there aren't many just nursing schools in NYC. Most nursing schools are within Universities, so career services is used by everyone but they do have certain fairs for specific students. All they can really do though is help you fix your resume and give you the HR numbers though.

DoGoodThenGo · Jul 17, 2010

It is very difficult for a hospital based nursing program to offer a BSN, the required course distribution would require a vast investment. Even the new NYC program between Kings County Hospital and LIU is really deep down a LIU program where students will be doing much if not most of their clinical work at a NYC hospital.

Aside from Beth Israel, cannot think of another NYC school that has a formal placment process, however that doesn't mean there aren't any, nor that schools don't try to place their grads via other formal or informal methods.

Speaking of Beth Israel's school, popular program or not, unless things change the trend is for the remaining NYC hospitals (at least those in Manahttan) to move towards hiring the BSN only, or at least preferred. North Shore/LIJ"s recent annoucement on this front takes Lenox Hill off ADN grads radar in terms of future employment. Ditto for Mount Sinai and NYP. That leaves what in Manhattan? Beekman Downtown, Hospital for Special Surgery, Harlem Hospital, and Beth Israel (not totally all BSN, but moving in that direction?).

Personally for the dear money Beth Israel's program costs, they would have to step up their game IMHO to show where and who hires their grads from previous semesters.

A word about the defunct Saint Vincent's of Manhattan nursing program.

There was a time if one graduated from SVMC's school you could write your own ticket anywhere in the United States. Everyone wanted St. Vinny's grads, they were *that* good!

What did the program in, FWIU is the shift by major NYC local hospitals to ADN and more recently BSN grads, and St. Vinny's was still a diploma program. In any event as things stood students had to shuttle up to the College of Mount St. Vincent for gen ed courses, so don't think it would have been easy or financially possible (remember by the 1980's and early 1990's nursing program's enrollmnets were way down, and many schools were closed), as there might not have been enough students to make a go of things.

guiltysins · Jul 17, 2010

It is very difficult for a hospital based nursing program to offer a BSN, the required course distribution would require a vast investment. Even the new NYC program between Kings County Hospital and LIU is really deep down a LIU program where students will be doing much if not most of their clinical work at a NYC hospital.
Aside from Beth Israel, cannot think of another NYC school that has a formal placment process, however that doesn't mean there aren't any, nor that schools don't try to place their grads via other formal or informal methods.
Speaking of Beth Israel's school, popular program or not, unless things change the trend is for the remaining NYC hospitals (at least those in Manahttan) to move towards hiring the BSN only, or at least preferred. North Shore/LIJ"s recent annoucement on this front takes Lenox Hill off ADN grads radar in terms of future employment. Ditto for Mount Sinai and NYP. That leaves what in Manhattan? Beekman Downtown, Hospital for Special Surgery, Harlem Hospital, and Beth Israel (not totally all BSN, but moving in that direction?).
Personally for the dear money Beth Israel's program costs, they would have to step up their game IMHO to show where and who hires their grads from previous semesters.
A word about the defunct Saint Vincent's of Manhattan nursing program.
There was a time if one graduated from SVMC's school you could write your own ticket anywhere in the United States. Everyone wanted St. Vinny's grads, they were *that* good!
What did the program in, FWIU is the shift by major NYC local hospitals to ADN and more recently BSN grads, and St. Vinny's was still a diploma program. In any event as things stood students had to shuttle up to the College of Mount St. Vincent for gen ed courses, so don't think it would have been easy or financially possible (remember by the 1980's and early 1990's nursing program's enrollmnets were way down, and many schools were closed), as there might not have been enough students to make a go of things.

From what I understand that is exactly what the LIU program is. They do all of their clinicals at Kings County and I'm not sure if the lecture classes are held at our campus or at kings county but I know they are all taught by the same LIU professors as us students in the original LIU nursing program. And if you think about it, it's almost like being an ADN program because they have to do their two years of pre-reqs and core requirements at a CUNY school before they can do that but they have to be accepted at LIU.

Long Island College Hospital also still has their nursing program, but I know LICH and Beth Isreal are both under Continuum Health Partners. The only way I could see those going to award a BSN is if they join partners with a nursing school which allows them to do their first 60 credits there and then do the last two years at Beth Isreal or LICH. I don't think they'd ever fully offer those programs by themselves.

PacoUSA, BSN, RN · Jul 17, 2010

Long Island College Hospital also still has their nursing program, but I know LICH and Beth Isreal are both under Continuum Health Partners. The only way I could see those going to award a BSN is if they join partners with a nursing school which allows them to do their first 60 credits there and then do the last two years at Beth Isreal or LICH. I don't think they'd ever fully offer those programs by themselves.

Beth Israel SON's website states they have articulation agreements with Excelsior and NYU for BSN completion. What exactly is an articulation agreement? I have heard of them before and have a general idea but never really researched it. Does it mean in this case that Beth Israel graduates get automatic acceptance to these BSN programs OR conversely does it mean that all ADN coursework is guaranteed to transfer?

DoGoodThenGo · Jul 17, 2010

Beth Israel SON's website states they have articulation agreements with Excelsior and NYU for BSN completion. What exactly is an articulation agreement? I have heard of them before and have a general idea but never really researched it. Does it mean in this case that Beth Israel graduates get automatic acceptance to these BSN programs OR conversely does it mean that all ADN coursework is guaranteed to transfer?

Articulation agreements are simply a contractual understanding between colleges/universities/schools that one will accept the transfer credits of another. It does not normally mean students are automatically or fast tracked into a program. One still has to go through the normal application process.

In terms of nursing, many ADN,A.A.S and diploma schools entered into such aggreements with four year colleges so their grads could persue RN to BSN degrees with few problems of transfering credits.

Keeping on theme, the College of Staten Island simply chose to start their own RN to BSN program instead of seeking out a four year college to "pair up" with.

NYU seems to be like the pretty girl at a party when it comes to nursing articulation agreements. Years ago, Bellevue's nursing school grads were able to go for their BSN at NYU through such an arrangement.

Short answer is "yes" if a school has an agreement with another college, then one's previous nursing coursework is accepted as transfer credits.

DoGoodThenGo · Jul 17, 2010

From what I understand that is exactly what the LIU program is. They do all of their clinicals at Kings County and I'm not sure if the lecture classes are held at our campus or at kings county but I know they are all taught by the same LIU professors as us students in the original LIU nursing program. And if you think about it, it's almost like being an ADN program because they have to do their two years of pre-reqs and core requirements at a CUNY school before they can do that but they have to be accepted at LIU.
Long Island College Hospital also still has their nursing program, but I know LICH and Beth Isreal are both under Continuum Health Partners. The only way I could see those going to award a BSN is if they join partners with a nursing school which allows them to do their first 60 credits there and then do the last two years at Beth Isreal or LICH. I don't think they'd ever fully offer those programs by themselves.

LICH's program went through some upheavals a little while back and lost their NLN status. Things seemed to have calmed down, and they got it back.

As for the Kingsbrough/LIU joint effort, it does seem like quite allot of jumping around IMHO. Two years undergraduate at any CUNY school, then off to LIU and so forth. It does leave the potential for lots of "wiggle room" in terms of lower level grade "quality".

Even though at other colleges the nursing programs do not have direct control over say the science or math departments, heads of nursing departments can and often do step in when they see a trend they don't like. For instance if students are coming out of a certain instructors A&P classes with "A's" yet once in nursing cannot perform, you can bet there are going to be some meetings.

LIU basically has to accept on faith these students are properly prepared.

guiltysins · Jul 18, 2010

LICH's program went through some upheavals a little while back and lost their NLN status. Things seemed to have calmed down, and they got it back.
As for the Kingsbrough/LIU joint effort, it does seem like quite allot of jumping around IMHO. Two years undergraduate at any CUNY school, then off to LIU and so forth. It does leave the potential for lots of "wiggle room" in terms of lower level grade "quality".
Even though at other colleges the nursing programs do not have direct control over say the science or math departments, heads of nursing departments can and often do step in when they see a trend they don't like. For instance if students are coming out of a certain instructors A&P classes with "A's" yet once in nursing cannot perform, you can bet there are going to be some meetings.
LIU basically has to accept on faith these students are properly prepared.

I think one of the reasons for all the jumping around is since it is with HHC, city hospitals, they want the students to do at least some coursework in a city run college or at least that's what it seems like. A lot of LIU students do this in general because of the steep tuition and they have a laundry list of pre and co-reqs. I did transfer to LIU but did all of my science courses at their school. It also poses a problem because these students are grouped in with the CUNY schools regular applicant pool. It's not like there are designated classes for these students so they have to scratch and fight for seats into the nursing pre-reqs like everyone else, which is already like playing the lottery.

DoGoodThenGo · Jul 18, 2010

I think one of the reasons for all the jumping around is since it is with HHC, city hospitals, they want the students to do at least some coursework in a city run college or at least that's what it seems like. A lot of LIU students do this in general because of the steep tuition and they have a laundry list of pre and co-reqs. I did transfer to LIU but did all of my science courses at their school. It also poses a problem because these students are grouped in with the CUNY schools regular applicant pool. It's not like there are designated classes for these students so they have to scratch and fight for seats into the nursing pre-reqs like everyone else, which is already like playing the lottery.

Really is a shame City College shut down their nursing program, leaving Hunter as the only undergrad BSN in the CUNY system for Manhattan. Applications to HB were always high in relation to number of slots, but these days things are just horrible from what one hears.

Can see where NYC was going with the Kingsbrough partnership. There really is a need for more "affordable" four year nursing programs in the city. Priviate colleges are fine and well, if one rolls with that kind of money, or is comfortable graduating with huge debts. Which by the way given the rather uncertain nature of nurse hiring at the moment, would have at least *me* rethinking the wisdom of such a move.

Just ponder for a moment if City College partnered with say Mount Sinai and or NYP to form a really great nursing school.

IMHO really feel sorry for nursing student's today. It seems they simply cannot have any "fun", and enjoy the experience. Yes, nursing school has never been a cake walk, but at least it was possible to have a life including a job if required.

Genuine_Pure_Setae · Jul 23, 2010

yup, after two years @ LICHSON accruing way too much debt, i have an ADN that's sure to get me a job...cause, no as previous posters have noted, there are *no* placement services available from the school at all.

& there were rumors that LICH isn't hiring its own students any longer.

maybe if i go into a BSN bridge program....what's sallie mae's number again?