Do nurses support physician assisted suicide?

Nurses General Nursing

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  1. Do you support physician assisted suicide?

    • 615
      yes
    • 274
      no
    • 78
      undecided

967 members have participated

Earlier today there was a thread regarding Dr. Kevorkian's release from prison. Just as I was adding my thoughts, it got moved to the Current Events restricted area.

At that time, it seemed like there was 100% support for him. Honestly, I was surprised, especially since not everyone he killed was terminally ill. (I'm from Michigan, though, so maybe I know more about his history).

So I'm wondering, do nurses generally support the theory of physician assisted suicide?

Thanks for the link. I noticed that they cited another ANA doc as their prime justification and said regardless of how individual nurses feel, that's the profession's stance and that's that.

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Specializes in ED, ICU, PACU.

Suicide is the taking of one's own life. Physician 'assisted' suicide is a just a euphemism to take the sting off the word MURDER-and, this nurse certainly opposes murder, no matter how the words are sugar-coated.

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Specializes in Oncology/Haemetology/HIV.

I do not believe in lphysician assisted suicide being appropriate.

That said if a patient were to choose to take their life, using the meds an MD has provided through legitimate means, that is the patient taking their own life. And if someone chooses to do so, I am saddened that it came to that, but do support their choice to control their death.

As an Oncology/HIV, I have seen that death is not the worst thing that can happen to someone, and I have had patients that killed themselves, pt family members that ODd a suffering family member, and had pt family members (some notoriously prolife and conservative) trying to get staffers to OD the dying. The suicides were generally pts that went home for a holiday, and mysteriously "died" right before readmission. None were autopsied (terminal cases as determined by the coroner) but did have access to sedatives and pain killers and had expressed to staffer(s) some issues about taking their lives.

The two cases of a pt family members ODing their loved one. One commited suicide two years later. The other developed serious depression issues.

I have always refused any efforts to assist in "euthanasia". I make it very clear that I will obtain adequate pain control, and if the patient is narcotic tolerant, to use what is needed to keep them more than comfortable and not in withdrawal. But I do not commit euthanasia, snowing those with pain med, with no reason other than to "snow" them out of life.

I get really irritated with people that confuse giving adequate pain med for symptom control (most hospices) and euthanasia. They are two very different concepts. If someone dies from symptom control, there is a difference from when you snow them under for no pain/maintenance.

You also have to recognize that if somebody legitimizes PA, it pushes a lot of MDs into the fire of "will my MD do this or not". There will be social issues. Not to mention that we already have people picketing abortion clinics, boycotting MDs that prescribe morning after pills. My Oncos routinely have distraught and irrational people calling them with the "My Mama was strong and should have lived, because the preacher said she would be healed - what did you do to KILL her? - sort of calls. They are going to the prime targets of PA issues.

Yeah, they need that kind of stress - NOT!

In addition, I will tell you from bitter experience. In EVERY single 'united" family front, there will be some that think Daddy should be kept comfortable and let go peaceful. There will be some that want you to narc Daddy out of the world - he could comatous, stable BP, narcotic naive and they will want you pushing 8mg of dilaudid every hour regardless. And then there will be those that Daddy could be writhing agony, and they will ask the MD to DC the pain med, because they don't want the nurses to kill him with a one mg morphine dose.

What will happen with the Courts get involved with the wrong relative?

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There are tons of information on how to euthanize oneself. And any GOOD oncologist generally prescribes more than enough pain med, sedatives for symptom control - that could be easily used for euthanasia. They have enough guilt issues on their plate. They do not need another stressor.

And the vast majority of terminally ill have the capacity to utilize the means at their disposal.

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What would be nice and would lessen the problem? Stop utilize every single invasive medical intervention for a problem - stop and think about putting that pacer/aicd in the 90 year old. Talk honestly about the implications and actual outcomes of certain treatments. That treating is not the same as curing. Stop surgeons from just rushing in to get 85 year old 90 lb bedridden patient's "informed" consent w/o actual full informing of the longterm issues. Get the ethics committee involved when 90 year old Aunt Millie gets told by her family that "she has to have" chemo for her pancreatic cancer.

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i was talking abut the patients. not only do hospice treat physical symtoms they also provide psychological and spiritual care to patients.

as a former hospice nurse, i can tell you that there are some cases where pts do not get relief from emotional or spiritual pain. and even though we have good meds available to us, some pts still die very painful deaths.

not everyone wants to die by inches. if a pt wants to take control over when and how he/she dies from a terminal disease process, to me that's a personal decision.

hospice has been a godsend for many people, but it is not perfect and it is not for everyone.

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Specializes in Maternal - Child Health.

A number of posters have indicated that they support physician assisted suicide "under the right circumstances" or "with strict controls".

For those who have responded as above, what should those circumstances be? What controls should be put in place? Who should set the guidelines for assisted suicide? The medical community, the legal community, the clergy, the general public? Who should enforce these guidelines? What penalties should exist for anyone who violates the guidelines? Who should dole out punishment to those who fail to follow the guidelines?

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Uhh.......don't say that around anyone who works in an animal ER....

Or to anyone who is vegan for ethical reasons!

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Specializes in ER, ICU, Infusion, peds, informatics.
as a former hospice nurse, i can tell you that there are some cases where pts do not get relief from emotional or spiritual pain. and even though we have good meds available to us, some pts still die very painful deaths.

not everyone wants to die by inches. if a pt wants to take control over when and how he/she dies from a terminal disease process, to me that's a personal decision.

hospice has been a godsend for many people, but it is not perfect and it is not for everyone.

:yeahthat:

i have seen some pretty agonizing deaths in hospice patients. not for a lack of the hospice doctors and nurses trying to control the pain (ours are just awesome), but because the pain was just so bad, and so difficult to control.

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Specializes in ER, ICU, Infusion, peds, informatics.
a number of posters have indicated that they support physician assisted suicide "under the right circumstances" or "with strict controls".

for those who have responded as above, what should those circumstances be? what controls should be put in place? who should set the guidelines for assisted suicide? the medical community, the legal community, the clergy, the general public? who should enforce these guidelines? what penalties should exist for anyone who violates the guidelines? who should dole out punishment to those who fail to follow the guidelines?

jolie,

[color=#483d8b]you bring up very good points, and i wish i knew the answers to those questions.

[color=#483d8b]i freely admit that legalizing pas would be an absolutly monsterous task. it is a very personal issue, and we won't all agree on what constitutes the "right" reason for pas. however, i still agree with the concept, for moral, ethical, and personal reasons.

[color=#483d8b]one of the hospice nurses (i think) remarked earlier in this thread about how some patients will have many bad days, but then a good day every so often.

[color=#483d8b]well, what if i don't want to suffer through the bad days to get to the good day??? should i have to??? who are we (as a general public) to decide what amount of suffering someone should have to endure on their way to death?

[color=#483d8b]i certainly agree with you that it is better to stop the heroics before they start, rather than to use suicide, physician-assisted or otherwise, to end a life. too often, though, i see the "heroics" (intubation, feeding tubes, etc) done on a last-minute basis, without too much thought on the part of the patient/family. it isn't until later, when they get the chance to think about it, that they realize it wasn't what they really wanted.

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Specializes in Critical Care, ED, Cath lab, CTPAC,Trauma.

As always these type of subjects bring on much debate. I think part of the problem is the term Physician assisted suicide.

People have very strict relogious beliefs to suicide and being bamished to hell. But what is a living will? Although not recognized in all states it is an express wish and dictation of the terms of someones death when that time comes. It expresses what ones desires at end of life and what care is to be or not to be given. It is a legal document drawn up by a lawyer and signed by a notary. Does that make a living will a suicide note? In states that recognize living wills it is assault and battery not to honor the wills stated guidelines and one can be sued for not following the patients wishes. I do believe we are more kind to our animals than we are our family members. From the day we are born we are dying......The greatest thing I ever did for my 17 yo dog was to put her to sleep when she was suffering from cancer. I would never have tortured her with surgery and chemo to keep her with me....that would have been selfish. She was terminal.... I chose to let her stop suffering as she was always a devoted best friend for me. But yet our grandparents or parents and family we love so much we make them suffer until their dying breath. We shove tubes in every orifice that they own, tie their hands down, make a few man made holes, just to keep them in our presence all because we love them sooo much.....after 27 years in emergency medicine and critical care there are a lot worse things than death.I have seen it...we can give quantity without quality very easily these days!!!! I knew a doctor once, a very renowned MD who always called it "Expensive Care". When we all know the outcome will still be fatal people love their familys so much they can't or wont let go. I know that If I have a terminal condition I don't want to be intubated on a vent and a financial burden to my family. My 90 yo Grandmother fell 2 years ago and broke her neck. The Mediacl staff wanted to do neurosurgery place a halo in hopes of reversing the injury she sustained ...if she survived the procedure. We all decided to take grammy home........she had become confused and wouldn't eat and constantly talked to my grandfather who has been dead for 20 years. We put a pedi philli collar on her got a hospital bed and took her home. I slept at her bedside for 2 weeks and had the most amazing conversations in the middle of the night.....I will cherish those last few days forever. I got to know my grammy in a very different way....I bathed her and loved her right up to teh end. We engaged hospice and she passed in her sleep. One day at 3 am my grammy wanted soft boiled eggs because the chickens just laid them, watch a baseball game and have a beer....and I gave it to her....Sometimes you need to love someone enough to let them go I am positive it is only to a better place.:balloons:

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Specializes in Medical/Surgical/Maternal and Child.

Kudos to you Jolie I couldn't have said it better myself.

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Specializes in Mostly LTC, some acute and some ER,.

I have been tossing the concept around in my head for a while now. I don't want to say yes and I don't want to say no, because its a tochy subject.

While death is merciful to the suffering, you don't know if you'd be missing out on a good day or good they might have between suffering and there death. On the other hand, every day they live on might seem like a year to them because they are in a world of pain and suffering, and that is all they will ever have. Like I said, I am not saying yes, and I am not saying no.

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i was talking abut the patients. not only do hospice treat physical symtoms they also provide psychological and spiritual care to patients.

why do you think there are hospice programs in the us? it allow patient themselves or family members to let go of their loved ones but without physical, psychological, and spiritual agony

the bold is what i was commenting on.

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