This vile expression implies that experienced nurses do not treat new nurses kindly. My first problem with the statement is that it’s a generalization implying that all nurses are like that. Interestingly, whenever I hear someone utter the expression, I always say, “I don’t do that. Do you?” The person making the statement always says, “Oh no, I don’t, but many others do.” I’ve never heard even one nurse own up to doing this, although some nurses are willing to indict the entire profession. Every time that statement is repeated, it causes harm and casts a dark shadow on every nurse. Say anything enough, and it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.
Please note that by moderator consensus some of the "Nurses Eat Their Young" posts will be referred to this thread where there can be an ongoing discussion, rather than several threads saying the same thing.
To students and new grads that are having problems with nurses, please take a moment to read the above link. Is it really the entire profession, every single nurse, or do you need help with one or a few nurses? We will be glad to help you in dealing with those people, but let bury the phrase "Nurses Eat Their Young".
To experienced nurses who claim our profession eats it's young, please take a moment to read it as well and think about it. Also take time to teach, be friendly and nurturing to the new nurse and students on your unit.
My, what interesting posts! I think we should be careful not to jump on somebody that is angry, after all, allnurses.com is a great venue to vent, I'd say.
Somebody posted that, to be sure, this is generally true of nursing. Well, this is probably why I discovered allnurses.com in the first place. I always have had such great relationships with teachers, both in high school and college. When I went to an ADN program, I was really shocked...I turned to the internet for support - my classmates were so scared to even discuss this with each other.
1. The first time I walked in a nursing class, everybody was getting chewed out about arriving late, including me. The program was so disorganized it was hard to figure out when and where the class was held, but I figured it to be the writing on the wall.
2. Within a few classes, I got the deal - a teacher told this joke:
What is the difff between a nursing student and dog poop?
Answer: People go out of their way to avoid stepping on the dog poop.
Charming, eh?
Well, it got "worser and worser" - I got screamed at in a clinical aftersession because my 12 or so pages of data collection weren't done. The teacher dragged me out of the room and was shouting at me - I said as calmly as possible that she was very unprofessional and I was going to leave. I filed a grievance. Things didn't get any better, now that I was a "trouble maker." Next thing I knew, I had pneumonia, probably from the stress. I dropped out, went back in, and finally am finishing at Excelsior, and got my LPN along the way.
Ok, my take is that this is the culture of nursing school, and perhaps nursing. I am not experienced to know how often this kind of stuff happens. But it is like the military. It's a long standing cultural thing, and I doubt if it will change unless there is a new crop of teachers who understand this stuff is not only unprofessional, it discourages people who would make wonderful nurses to leave with their tails between their legs. I almost did, but found so many aspects to be appealing enough to stick it out. I'm VERY glad I did. Nursing students have to think of it as a rite of passage. I understand medical school is similar - for instance my family gp says his anatomy instructor had a sack of some fruit, and first class, banged it on his podium saying, "see this?, this is what I am going to do to your balls in this course." Guess this was before there were too many women, God knows what he would have done.
It's important to remember that while, yes, management is a pain, but some are a more pain than others - the beauty of nursing is that if it's really bad, chances are good you'll find something that works for you.
Sometimes it may be just one other co-worker that keeps you sane.
And, yes, you can allways vent to your quarter million e-pals on allnurses.com!
ok, my take is that this is the culture of nursing school, and perhaps nursing. i am not experienced to know how often this kind of stuff happens. but it is like the military. it's a long standing cultural thing, and i doubt if it will change unless there is a new crop of teachers who understand this stuff is not only unprofessional, it discourages people who would make wonderful nurses to leave with their tails between their legs. diahni
i'm at penn state-behrend for my adn. it's their first year with a program, and i hope the instructors don't change a bit!! they've said that they dislike the way a lot of nursing programs are run and they teach with the goal of helping us to learn. the environment is so much different than when i got my lpn...even if we do something wrong, the instructors are supportive and help us to figure out how/why, etc we made our error. now, don't get me wrong, they won't put up with any cr*p, but they also don't terrorize the students. let's hope most nursing programs are taking this refreshing stance...and to my instructors...thank you!!
Ok, my take is that this is the culture of nursing school, and perhaps nursing. Diahni
What a dreadful school you go to. But is it really fair to generalize your experience at this one school to all nursing schools and the entire profession? I don't blame you if you do, but honestly, its not like that everywhere.
I don't want to dminimish your experiences, but that wasn't my experience at all. I went to a tough school, NLN approved, but the instructors weren't like military boot camp directors. They were tough, critical, but fair and consistent and we had a good time.
What a dreadful school you go to. But is it really fair to generalize your experience at this one school to all nursing schools and the entire profession? I don't blame you if you do, but honestly, its not like that everywhere.
I don't want to dminimish your experiences, but that wasn't my experience at all. I went to a tough school, NLN approved, but the instructors weren't like military boot camp directors. They were tough, critical, but fair and consistent and we had a good time.
Oh no, Tweety, I dont think you mean to! "Tough" is good - and in the long run, you will appreciate those teachers more than others. But tough does not equal mean. Another thing is that there is a difference between seriousness and humorlessness. But not being funny or delightful is not a crime for a teacher. (Isn't it fun to have a funny teacher, though? It makes being in the class a delight.) I spent three semesters being enraged at the environment. One thing I did hear is Yale nursing school is a wonderful place to go, and someone just mentioned UPenn. Don't forget most of us are not footloose enough to go where we want. I have a house and family. I am sure there is a range of experiences out there. As well, some fellow students at the school I went to just sucked it up and knew it was only going to be two years. After having several careers where I had a lot of respect, it was really hard to swallow having women my own age treat me like I was a mentally retarded six year old. I could sum up my entire time there with this one annecdote: A teacher was talking about dealing with the families of the dying. I raised my hand to say it's important to remember, having been though the death of several family members, that otherwise very sane normal people can get pretty crazy when a loved one is dying. I said so because I didn't think she had made this point. Well, she rolled her eyes (a common teacher gesture at this school) and muttered "I don't have time for this." A pal kicked me under the desk and said, "You gotta stop raising your hand." Well, I am middleaged and have much to bring to the table in my experiences. If this isn't welcome in a college classroom, that's pretty pathetic.
Another thing that speaks volumes - we were given a "Critical thinking" test right at the beginning - I had the top possible score - I'm older, well educated, etc. etc. I made a general survey to make the observation that those who had high scores had the hardest time with the teachers. Meanwhile, a chiropractor friend was considering getting an NP so he could prescribe - upon suggesting this school, he said, "Those Nazis? No way! " I guess news travels fast. But God forbid anybody make criticisms of the program - I went to the dean and she practically had me thrown out in the most underhanded way. "I'm very protective of my nurses" she said - hmmm, with the exception of a dean of faculty, aren't deans supposed to be protective of students? I had better stop, I'm having PTSD flashbacks thinking of this! But one last thing - this school is in a former GE town.
In the past GE paid big cash bonuses to people to forfeit college and go straight to work. There is a very strong anti-intellectual atmosphere, very untypical of our state. I don't care what your background is, nurses must love learning and do so throughout their career.
Diahni, my concern was and is that you generalize your experience and stereotype nursing the way some of the instructors seem to do and buy into the idea that once you become a nurse and gain experience you become a humorless ogre that eats their young. Why would you enter a profession like that?
Your experience is your individual unique experience, underfortunately not an unheared of because plenty of student comes to Allnurses venting about wicked instructors and nurses on the floor. But there are also a couple of students who journal here, another in the Healthy living thread, and many others who don't vent (and thus the boards are skewed negatively) that are having positive experiences in school, with their instructors and the nurses on the floor that they go to.
I hope you don't mind my giving you advice. Nursing jobs are one of the most plentiful out there. Don't waste the rest of your life dreading going to work. Or worse yet, think of leaving the career altogether because of bad experiences. Look for a different floor or a different job altogether. When you interview ask about the turn over rate. If they say they have had a difficult time keeping staff, run!!! You don't have to put up with a bad job, life is too short. There is no rule out there that says "Nurses are suppose to be treated like crap! You are a professional!! You deserve to be respected!
Shame on all of us? For those of us who are negative? Sorry, but I and the overwhelming majority of my collegues don't fit that discription at all. Speakking of "those of us who are negative", I didn't read one positive thing in your post. But since you're not going to read this thread anymore, I'll end it here.
I would definitely agree with Tweety that you can generalize by saying "Shame on All of us." I personally work with many wonderful experienced nurses...I've never seen one of them eat the newer nurses coming on board. There may be occasions where they are so busy with a critical case that they may seem abrupt...but there are some newer nurses that will ask the same question over and over again without making an effort in retaining this information or investigating it further.
Diahni, my concern was and is that you generalize your experience and stereotype nursing the way some of the instructors seem to do and buy into the idea that once you become a nurse and gain experience you become a humorless ogre that eats their young. Why would you enter a profession like that?
Tweety, Oh no, I definitely wouldn't have persisted with my education if I saw it that way. I do, however, think that there are subcultures within the field that are definitely like this, and nobody's to stop someone from switching jobs. I, for one, will never be as humorless as some of the people I have encountered in the field, and I also know it takes all kinds. And let's face it, even social research is a kind of stereotyping - it's inevitable if you are finding why, for instance, there is more depression in a certain field, for instance. There is some strong research about the culture of nursing that describes the kind of experiences I had.
Your experience is your individual unique experience, underfortunately not an unheared of because plenty of student comes to Allnurses venting about wicked instructors and nurses on the floor.
They sure do! Same here. But at the same time, I have found allnurses to also be an incredible source of support, information, comparing notes, etc., mixed in with the venting!
But there are also a couple of students who journal here, another in the Healthy living thread, and many others who don't vent (and thus the boards are skewed negatively) that are having positive experiences in school, with their instructors and the nurses on the floor that they go to.
I know that - there does seem to be a wide variety of experiences. But that doesn't take away from the experiences of the ones that vent. The very female professions of nursing and teaching have been around for a long time and I suspect that a lot of the anachronistic stuff one finds (like it's okay to belittle a student) in nursing has a strong historical precedent. Meanwhile, there's a lot of new blood in the profession - men who are retiring from another profession, second career nurses and so on. This can be nothing but good.
One of the things that cracks me up is when people refer to the "old days" when a nurse would stand up if a doctor entered the room. Now, this aspect is definitely not what I have observed. Right at the beginning of my clinical training, I witnessed an LPN giving an MD hell for discharging a mentally retarded man who have a fever after gall bladder surgery. The md listened to the nurse and the patient remained. My, how things have changed. Meanwhile, I definitely think there is truth to the "Big Nurse" stereotype from "One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest."
Teeituptom: A situation can get you angry and at the same time you can vow to not be that way yourself. I don't think this is a small problem - I know more than a few people who dropped out of nursing school because of the hazing. My solution was always to find the situation amusing. I was "written up" as a student by a nurse - my "crimes" included using a bed pan to empty a foley bag because there was no proper container in the room, and worse - I didn't turn the lights on to dispense meds. It was an extremely bright snowy day, and the room had a big picture window. And on and on. No rumors here, this ridiculous stuff happens, and it's really petty. yada yada indeed!
But yeah, the "eating their young thing" is getting tired - best thing to do with negative people is blow 'em off as much as you can manage.
Diahni
People dont drop out of nursing school because of hazing. They just find out its hard schooling and harder work. Hazing has nothing to do with it at all. Not everyone is meant to be a nurse.
oh... and by the way I AM one of the young - and I can truly, honestly, deep within my heart tell you that it is true - you definelty eat your own young weather you believe it or not.
What a dreadful school you go to. But is it really fair to generalize your experience at this one school to all nursing schools and the entire profession? I don't blame you if you do, but honestly, its not like that everywhere.
I don't want to dminimish your experiences, but that wasn't my experience at all. I went to a tough school, NLN approved, but the instructors weren't like military boot camp directors. They were tough, critical, but fair and consistent and we had a good time.
My instructors were all retired Army captains and colonels, Tough but very fair and excellent teachers. And yes we had PE every morning rather than coffee and donuts.
Diahni
627 Posts
Everybody,
My, what interesting posts! I think we should be careful not to jump on somebody that is angry, after all, allnurses.com is a great venue to vent, I'd say.
Somebody posted that, to be sure, this is generally true of nursing. Well, this is probably why I discovered allnurses.com in the first place. I always have had such great relationships with teachers, both in high school and college. When I went to an ADN program, I was really shocked...I turned to the internet for support - my classmates were so scared to even discuss this with each other.
1. The first time I walked in a nursing class, everybody was getting chewed out about arriving late, including me. The program was so disorganized it was hard to figure out when and where the class was held, but I figured it to be the writing on the wall.
2. Within a few classes, I got the deal - a teacher told this joke:
What is the difff between a nursing student and dog poop?
Answer: People go out of their way to avoid stepping on the dog poop.
Charming, eh?
Well, it got "worser and worser" - I got screamed at in a clinical aftersession because my 12 or so pages of data collection weren't done. The teacher dragged me out of the room and was shouting at me - I said as calmly as possible that she was very unprofessional and I was going to leave. I filed a grievance. Things didn't get any better, now that I was a "trouble maker." Next thing I knew, I had pneumonia, probably from the stress. I dropped out, went back in, and finally am finishing at Excelsior, and got my LPN along the way.
Ok, my take is that this is the culture of nursing school, and perhaps nursing. I am not experienced to know how often this kind of stuff happens. But it is like the military. It's a long standing cultural thing, and I doubt if it will change unless there is a new crop of teachers who understand this stuff is not only unprofessional, it discourages people who would make wonderful nurses to leave with their tails between their legs. I almost did, but found so many aspects to be appealing enough to stick it out. I'm VERY glad I did. Nursing students have to think of it as a rite of passage. I understand medical school is similar - for instance my family gp says his anatomy instructor had a sack of some fruit, and first class, banged it on his podium saying, "see this?, this is what I am going to do to your balls in this course." Guess this was before there were too many women, God knows what he would have done.
It's important to remember that while, yes, management is a pain, but some are a more pain than others - the beauty of nursing is that if it's really bad, chances are good you'll find something that works for you.
Sometimes it may be just one other co-worker that keeps you sane.
And, yes, you can allways vent to your quarter million e-pals on allnurses.com!
Diahni