This vile expression implies that experienced nurses do not treat new nurses kindly. My first problem with the statement is that it’s a generalization implying that all nurses are like that. Interestingly, whenever I hear someone utter the expression, I always say, “I don’t do that. Do you?” The person making the statement always says, “Oh no, I don’t, but many others do.” I’ve never heard even one nurse own up to doing this, although some nurses are willing to indict the entire profession. Every time that statement is repeated, it causes harm and casts a dark shadow on every nurse. Say anything enough, and it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.
Please note that by moderator consensus some of the "Nurses Eat Their Young" posts will be referred to this thread where there can be an ongoing discussion, rather than several threads saying the same thing.
To students and new grads that are having problems with nurses, please take a moment to read the above link. Is it really the entire profession, every single nurse, or do you need help with one or a few nurses? We will be glad to help you in dealing with those people, but let bury the phrase "Nurses Eat Their Young".
To experienced nurses who claim our profession eats it's young, please take a moment to read it as well and think about it. Also take time to teach, be friendly and nurturing to the new nurse and students on your unit.
My instructors were all retired Army captains and colonels, Tough but very fair and excellent teachers. And yes we had PE every morning rather than coffee and donuts.
TIUT:
Ya'll touched on some big big wisdom here - nursing school is stressful at best. There were a lot of smokers in my class - breaks meant that everybody would go out for a smoke and coffee. Nurses need endurance, and exercise gives you that. I made this discovery when I was "stress smoking" i.e., bumming the occasional butt when I was feeling the heat....well, I was on my exercise bike, and realized after getting my heart rate up, the thought of smoking made me gag! I know the mechanism for smoking is when ya need a dopamine fix. Working out will do that for ya, eh? What an excellent idea! i went to high school in CA and we had to do one hour of aerobics every day. Meanwhile, back in the People's Republic, (MA) sometimes I didn't have gym at all. Meanwhile, there's a doc I read about with a drug-free depression program. No drugs, work up a sweat. The end. It works.
"Tough and fair" seems like the ideal combo for nursing school. Of course, this depends on what you mean by fair! Most of us who have never been in the military have these images from movies of the drill sargent screaming into somebody's face. Ahhhh! But ya know, there are some really good parallels between the military and nursing. After all, we have to keep our emotions in check, that is for sure. Combat can mess up somebody who hasn't been trained. I know first hand because it did a number to my father, and he was in the "good war."
And if you can't maintain some emotional distance as a nurse, you become a burn out.
But really, what a brilliant idea. Maybe ALL nursing schools should take this on! Stress is just another word for having to burn those fight or flight chemicals out of your system.
oh... and by the way i am one of the young - and i can truly, honestly, deep within my heart tell you that it is true - you definelty eat your own young weather you believe it or not.
dee
i'm sorry, dee, but i also don't believe it. i do believe, however, that there are some preceptors; nurses, plumbers, police officers, physicians, etc., ad nauseum, who allow their status of being senior in their position either go to their head, or are just unable or lack the desire to teach their junior collegues. there are bad teachers as well as bad students out there.
so please, please, stop generalizing all senior nurses as pompous and pious as*es.
personally, when i was new on the floor, i wrote key points down in a notebook during the day(s) while shadowing my preceptor. i did not interupt her while she carried out the tasks of her busy day (med/surge). i, most importantly, observed. the end of the day was the best time for question and answer period. i know that my preceptor appreciated this, as i didn't interfere with the rhythm of her day.
when it was time for me to train new grads, i was always calm, courteous and understanding. no question is a stupid question as far as i am concerned. i always embrace the new nurse, as i clearly remember what it was like to be in her/his shoes more than 16 years ago.
i hope this thought helps those of you who think we all grow fangs and horns when a sudent/gn arrives on the floor. yes, there are some who do, but most of us are very happy to have you on our team.
i'm sorry, dee, but i also don't believe it. i do believe, however, that there are some preceptors; nurses, plumbers, police officers, physicians, etc., ad nauseum, who allow their status of being senior in their position either go to their head, or are just unable or lack the desire to teach their junior collegues. there are bad teachers as well as bad students out there.
so please, please, stop generalizing all senior nurses as pompous and pious as*es.
personally, when i was new on the floor, i wrote key points down in a notebook during the day(s) while shadowing my preceptor. i did not interupt her while she carried out the tasks of her busy day (med/surge). i, most importantly, observed. the end of the day was the best time for question and answer period. i know that my preceptor appreciated this, as i didn't interfere with the rhythm of her day.
when it was time for me to train new grads, i was always calm, courteous and understanding. no question is a stupid question as far as i am concerned. i always embrace the new nurse, as i clearly remember what it was like to be in her/his shoes more than 16 years ago.
i hope this thought helps those of you who think we all grow fangs and horns when a sudent/gn arrives on the floor. yes, there are some who do, but most of us are very happy to have you on our team.
:icon_hug:
i wonder why the system of "observe and ask questions later" went away. i think it would make things smoother, don't you think? and, yes, it is annoying to have a chatty cathy student following you. (mea culpa!) it's just as annoying to have somebody constantly brush you off when you're there to learn. it's hard to do too many things at once, and let's face it, while you're attending to the patient, how can you give the student full attention? there is so much work to be done to improve how the learning process happens, or doesn't happen, in nursing. the third party here is the patient - would you like to know you are the first person getting injected by a student? i wouldn't.
(another thought - think of how medical students follows an md like baby ducklings. the doctor does all the interacting with the patient.)
after the doctor "performs" the students ask a thing or two.)
I was told in school, as was Tweety, that nurses eat their young, in fact, some of us had to write a research paper on it and do a presentation. I had always heard about it - though I never experienced it - up until several weeks ago.
I am putting it behind me and don't want to dwell on the situation - after much contemplation - I realize that the nurse or nurses that put me in that situation obviously have some kind of other issues going on and they felt the need to drag me into a situation that I had nothing to do it - subsequently, I feel that management is now more critical of me.
On our floor we are required to make rounds in each patient's room every hour and sign a board posted in each room that we have done this. Our manager goes around and checks these boards and questions each and every patient about their nursing care. I don't have a problem with that because I do it anyway, sometimes I do forget even though I have done my rounds. My point for making this comment is that I find out from my patients first that they are going to be discharged before I get the paperwork from the MD. So I am always on top of this, I know my patients want to get out of the hospital ASAP - I even start the paperwork before I get the final ok in order to expedite discharges. Management flip flops every day - one day I am told to call the MD to get a verbal order for discharge - the very next day I am told to not call the MD - the patient can wait. One day I am called to get the discharge papers, other days I am told that it can wait I need to attend some "meeting" first.
As for questioning patients, I personally don't care, but we all know that no matter what there are going to be patients that we just can't please. My manager writes down every comment and calls each and every nurse with only the "bad" comments. We never hear any good feed back. I have over heard several more experienced nurses commenting how they come to work and feel nervous because management is breathing down our throats and even they feel they may make a mistake. I thought it was only me because I was a new nurse. I said nothing because I honestly don't know who I can trust anymore, I just listened to their conversation. I know several more experienced nurses have already resigned because of these problems. I am just going to work, learning, keeping to myself, trying to provide the best patient care that I can and keeping my ears own for a better position somewhere else.
I was told in school, as was Tweety, that nurses eat their young, in fact, some of us had to write a research paper on it and do a presentation. I had always heard about it - though I never experienced it - up until several weeks ago.
I am putting it behind me and don't want to dwell on the situation - after much contemplation - I realize that the nurse or nurses that put me in that situation obviously have some kind of other issues going on and they felt the need to drag me into a situation that I had nothing to do it - subsequently, I feel that management is now more critical of me.
On our floor we are required to make rounds in each patient's room every hour and sign a board posted in each room that we have done this. Our manager goes around and checks these boards and questions each and every patient about their nursing care. I don't have a problem with that because I do it anyway, sometimes I do forget even though I have done my rounds. My point for making this comment is that I find out from my patients first that they are going to be discharged before I get the paperwork from the MD. So I am always on top of this, I know my patients want to get out of the hospital ASAP - I even start the paperwork before I get the final ok in order to expedite discharges. Management flip flops every day - one day I am told to call the MD to get a verbal order for discharge - the very next day I am told to not call the MD - the patient can wait. One day I am called to get the discharge papers, other days I am told that it can wait I need to attend some "meeting" first.
As for questioning patients, I personally don't care, but we all know that no matter what there are going to be patients that we just can't please. My manager writes down every comment and calls each and every nurse with only the "bad" comments. We never hear any good feed back. I have over heard several more experienced nurses commenting how they come to work and feel nervous because management is breathing down our throats and even they feel they may make a mistake. I thought it was only me because I was a new nurse. I said nothing because I honestly don't know who I can trust anymore, I just listened to their conversation. I know several more experienced nurses have already resigned because of these problems. I am just going to work, learning, keeping to myself, trying to provide the best patient care that I can and keeping my ears own for a better position somewhere else.
First of all, let me clarify that it wasn't me that was told nursing nursing school that "Nurses Eat Their Young". It's a vile phrase to me and one that I have only recently heard, and for the first time here on Allnurses. It's not a phrase I encounter in real life very often, and not in nursing school.
Ugh, that customer service crud is probably what your manager is doing and it's a pain. We have a Clinical Nurse Leader that does the same thing, but unlike your manager, she's quick to point out the compliments. We all know poor managers, in fact there aren't many nurses that like their managers.
Each and every one of us can come up with a story or a few of how other nurses have mistreated us or done us wrong. I certainly can because I've worked with an ogre or two. However, it doesn't happen enough for me to want to brand a profession that I am very proud to be a part of, as one that eat their young.
Specializes in Med/surg, cardiology, ER, geriatrics.
I had more experienced nurses when I was young and new be absolute jerks, but I also had some great nurses who were more than happy to help me and answered any questions I had. I think it depends on the person. One hospital I worked in had great nurses on day shift and arrogant nurses on nights. I was PRN and once I figured that out I asked the UD to call me for days and not nights. I let him know why too. This was only 4 yers ago, I've been in nursing almost 25 years(yikes!).My last job, nurses were pretty helpful. It was the non-nursing personnel and MD's who were stand offish and rude. I was the nurse manager.
First of all, let me clarify that it wasn't me that was told nursing nursing school that "Nurses Eat Their Young". It's a vile phrase to me and one that I have only recently heard, and for the first time here on Allnurses. It's not a phrase I encounter in real life very often, and not in nursing school.
Tweety: You touched on something big here - whatever squabbling exists or doesn't exist between nurses in the biz, boy, do other people show respect, eh? Okay, not the "patients from hell" that happen from time to time. This is inevitable as nobody is great company when sick.
People will say things to me when I tell them I just got my license like, "Well, you're not going to have to worry about going to heaven." It's nice to know that other people respect and admire what you chosen to do. There was some thread on allnurses.com where somebody asked if nurses will get out of speeding tickets because of "professional courtesy" - well, I don't know if this is true, because I've never been stopped for speeding with scrubs on, but this kind of attitude does exist between people in the kinds of professions that help people, can be stressful or risky. It's noble work, something you can be proud of. Not just because it's hard training, but because a lot of people wouldn't do such an altruistic thing for a living.
First of all, let me clarify that it wasn't me that was told nursing nursing school that "Nurses Eat Their Young". It's a vile phrase to me and one that I have only recently heard, and for the first time here on Allnurses. It's not a phrase I encounter in real life very often, and not in nursing school.
Ugh, that customer service crud is probably what your manager is doing and it's a pain. We have a Clinical Nurse Leader that does the same thing, but unlike your manager, she's quick to point out the compliments. We all know poor managers, in fact there aren't many nurses that like their managers.
Each and every one of us can come up with a story or a few of how other nurses have mistreated us or done us wrong. I certainly can because I've worked with an ogre or two. However, it doesn't happen enough for me to want to brand a profession that I am very proud to be a part of, as one that eat their young.
Oh my Tweety! I just saw that you're a guy! Not only is the "eat their young" dynamic utterly irrelevant to your experiences, any progeny-consuming activity would be invisible to you. Men strut their stuff and subsequent authority in an entirely different way. This is a fact, Jack! Now I get it! To be sure to be sure, things are not always as they seem to be!
P.S.It's not a "nurse thing" per se, it's a female thing, which is amplified in all-female environments. As somebody who spent four years at Smith College, the sine qua non of femaledom, I know from whence I speak.
A rough approximation: men pull rank by striving for the most money, hottest car, the most beautiful woman for a wife, etc., with much bragging and spitting, etc. Women, well, meeeeoooooooowwwww.
P.S.It's not a "nurse thing" per se, it's a female thing, which is amplified in all-female environments. As somebody who spent four years at Smith College, the sine qua non of femaledom, I know from whence I speak.
A rough approximation: men pull rank by striving for the most money, hottest car, the most beautiful woman for a wife, etc., with much bragging and spitting, etc. Women, well, meeeeoooooooowwwww.
Diahni
Well women may meow, but men invited the phrase "it's a dog eat dog world" about themselves, so they do it as well. I don't like generalizing the female workforce anymore that I like the vile phrase "nurses eat their young".
You and I are destined to agree to disagree on things.
Well women may meow, but men invited the phrase "it's a dog eat dog world" about themselves, so they do it as well. I don't like generalizing the female workforce anymore that I like the vile phrase "nurses eat their young".
You and I are destined to agree to disagree on things.
I agree and I'm about to repeat a phrase I always say . . . . .
Women are not monoliths.
It drives me crazy when people ascribe certain characteristics to all women or all nurses.
I too hate the "vile" phrase that nurses eat their young and don't agree with it at all.
That does not mean that "SOME" nurses are rude and inconsiderate and "meow". But not all nurses nor all women or even most.
I've been treated badly by folks in many different jobs and it has nothing to do with what sex they are. Some people are just mean.
Generalizations and stereotypes . . . not something I'm in favor of spreading.
Well women may meow, but men invited the phrase "it's a dog eat dog world" about themselves, so they do it as well. I don't like generalizing the female workforce anymore that I like the vile phrase "nurses eat their young".
You and I are destined to agree to disagree on things.
Yeah, viva la difference! I think there is a lot of truth to the dog and cat analogy - ever hear the deceased comedian Lenny Bruce's routine about this? Cats seem female and dogs male. But get this one from my jazz musician friends: "Cats (as in jazz cats) will be dogs." That's true too! But dogs may eat dogs, and it's really straight and to the point. Cats are so much more sly, I'd say. It's been the fodder for comedians for years, but there's a lot of truth to this: men are simpler and more direct - women are complicated and harder to figure out.
. . . . .
Diahni
627 Posts
TIUT:
Ya'll touched on some big big wisdom here - nursing school is stressful at best. There were a lot of smokers in my class - breaks meant that everybody would go out for a smoke and coffee. Nurses need endurance, and exercise gives you that. I made this discovery when I was "stress smoking" i.e., bumming the occasional butt when I was feeling the heat....well, I was on my exercise bike, and realized after getting my heart rate up, the thought of smoking made me gag! I know the mechanism for smoking is when ya need a dopamine fix. Working out will do that for ya, eh? What an excellent idea! i went to high school in CA and we had to do one hour of aerobics every day. Meanwhile, back in the People's Republic, (MA) sometimes I didn't have gym at all. Meanwhile, there's a doc I read about with a drug-free depression program. No drugs, work up a sweat. The end. It works.
"Tough and fair" seems like the ideal combo for nursing school. Of course, this depends on what you mean by fair! Most of us who have never been in the military have these images from movies of the drill sargent screaming into somebody's face. Ahhhh! But ya know, there are some really good parallels between the military and nursing. After all, we have to keep our emotions in check, that is for sure. Combat can mess up somebody who hasn't been trained. I know first hand because it did a number to my father, and he was in the "good war."
And if you can't maintain some emotional distance as a nurse, you become a burn out.
But really, what a brilliant idea. Maybe ALL nursing schools should take this on! Stress is just another word for having to burn those fight or flight chemicals out of your system.
Diahni