This vile expression implies that experienced nurses do not treat new nurses kindly. My first problem with the statement is that it’s a generalization implying that all nurses are like that. Interestingly, whenever I hear someone utter the expression, I always say, “I don’t do that. Do you?” The person making the statement always says, “Oh no, I don’t, but many others do.” I’ve never heard even one nurse own up to doing this, although some nurses are willing to indict the entire profession. Every time that statement is repeated, it causes harm and casts a dark shadow on every nurse. Say anything enough, and it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.
Please note that by moderator consensus some of the "Nurses Eat Their Young" posts will be referred to this thread where there can be an ongoing discussion, rather than several threads saying the same thing.
To students and new grads that are having problems with nurses, please take a moment to read the above link. Is it really the entire profession, every single nurse, or do you need help with one or a few nurses? We will be glad to help you in dealing with those people, but let bury the phrase "Nurses Eat Their Young".
To experienced nurses who claim our profession eats it's young, please take a moment to read it as well and think about it. Also take time to teach, be friendly and nurturing to the new nurse and students on your unit.
Nobsrn: The only thing I'm surprised about is this didn't happen to you earlier! It's my experience that the more of a previous life you had before, i.e. varying careers, etc., the more you're going to be a target. I have several "theories" as to why this is, pm me if you like, but trust me, it ain't you! One would think that such a busy career as nursing would preclude all the things you mention, but apparently it doesn't. One could "deconstruct" every behavior you mentioned. Know it alls are afraid they don't know it all, and gossip is for the intellectually challenged. The only solution to a toxic work environment is to look elsewhere, and God willing, you'll find a place with lovely people to work with. I have a friend (not in nursing) who left a job she loved because of the kinds of thing you mentioned. The choice is clear, I think.
Diahni
Share your theories please. I'm sure they would be helpful and offer
No one thinks they do (eat their young), but every shift I come home wondering if I shoud look for a different position. I'm an older, re-entry RN. I've had my own (succcessful) business for 20 years, my daughter is grown, I've traveled. I came back to nursing because I knew that my compassion and life experience would be welcome by patients, and I wanted to make a contribution. I started on a med-surg unit, with a very supportive group of experienced RNs. I learned the new technology and drugs quickly (I got no special training program for new grads or re-entry.) I was oriented for 3 weeks and dived in. All was well. After two years, I transfered to ICU. I'm finding cliques like in high school, gossip, put-downs and one-upmanship. I have a lot to offer, and I am a proven quick learner, yet I have been told I'm a slow learner but not to feel bad because its just my age--don't take it personally. It never occurs to them to look at their teaching skills or personal dynamics. I have started on the night shift, and I am awake, alert, and not taking a nap mid shift as they do. I'm rethinking this position even though it's where I wanted to be just because of the reception I'm getting. The men nurses don't show this caddiness. Not all, but many women nurses really need to reflect on their hyper-critical, know it all attitude.
Every field has a version of "eating their young" -lawyers, MDs, etc. Google "horizontal violence+nursing" and you will see reams of web pages. A little foraging (did a presentation on this in nursing school) and you will find the violence is an international phenomenon. There is a trend showing in journals of violence (sometimes physical) against nursing students by instructors.
A male nurse I know with 20+ years experience recommended to me -on the cusp middle age male and career changer myself - to simply ignore the unhappy nurses and seek out the positive ones and learn from them. In an ideal world, find a mentor. His response to the cattiness was simple: carry a small spiral bound notebook that can fit in your cargo pant and document date, time, and person when something is directed at you, or you think something critical wont be done after you communicated it to another nurse. He informed me this has stopped the nastiness to him. His major complaint was the put downs and gossiping amongst nurses while the person is standing right there in front of them. His response on behalf of the other nurse? He walked right up to them and said, "I know you went to nursing school and I respect that, but did your parents forget to teach you manners". The guy is a 20 year Marine vet and doesnt suffer fools. He is approaching 70 and works ICU and loves it, and works hard for his patients. He has seen the best and worse in the field and abroad in the military. His final word was: "Do the best for your patients because they are who matter most. If the coworkers are a team then count your blessings."
Sadly something is to be said for documenting incidents. In nursing school my class had problems with an instructor. After numerous attempts to get the administration to do something (their response was it doesnt exist) the class filed a complaint with the Attorney General and submitted roughly 15 pages of meticulous documentation for incidents, dates, time, and witnesses present. The school had no choice but review the incident and the instructor was relieved. Another school in my state had something similar and their accreditation and nursing program was suspended.
Do what you can, give the benefit of doubt but CYA. I believe the stress in the field is that high that unfortunately we take it on out on each other. I wish it would change so the behavior does not diminish the professional image or destroy the good work done by many day in and day out.
I'm fortunate to work on a unit where the eating of young is very much the exception. Then again, I'm one of several newer nurses who worked on our unit in an unlicensed job before I became a nurse, and I think we may enjoy a bit of a charmed status. (Two of my cohorts were aides, and I was an orderly, sort of.) The chance to establish your work ethic, caring, and willingness to be helpful before you have to prove your nursing skills is a big advantage--especially in my case, since my nursing skills have taken a lot of development on the job.
Still, I've watched others hired at the same time I was, and since, and I can think of only one who got chewed on much, and she deserved it.
Bad attitude, totally incompetent, dangerous and apparently indifferent.
That isn't to say it's all hearts and flowers. During orientation, I heard a lot about how great I was doing, and that was nice, and may well have been what I needed, since my confidence was pretty low. I also tend to be a bit self-critical, although I do try to be constructive about it. When a person is obviously aware he screwed up and is actively learning how to avoid repeating the same mistake, it isn't as necessary to point out the screw up. Still, when screw-ups have been pointed out to me, I've admitted to myself and my critic(s) that sometimes that's more instructive than just being told how great you're doing. Encouragement is great, but you need to learn this stuff before you kill somebody.
One of the things I've noticed, and we were discussing the other night, is how much newbies seem to take after their mentors. (This doesn't seem as true for me. My primary mentor is vastly proficient, cool as a cucumber in a crisis, and thoroughly professional. Then again, my panic-mode tends to be to freeze, which might look like calmness to someone who didn't know better, and we do both tend to be charting at 0800. We're even late for the same reason--pt care first, charting when you get time. It's just that I think her pts get a higher standard of care in the process--but I'm working on it.)
Anyway, it seems like the newbies who had brash, outspoken mentors are rather brash, outspoken newbies, and the newbies with painfully meticulous mentors are pretty darned meticulous, too. But another thing I've observed is that if you're thinking about chowing down on a newbie, you'd better look hard at who trained them, because some of our mentors--most, in fact--can get pretty darned protective. A 5yr nurse who wants to ream a 1st yr nurse can find herself in the jaws of a 20yr nurse before she knows what hit her.
And God help anyone from another unit who has anything bad to say about one of our nurses.
This may not be a textbook example of how it's supposed to work, but it does work. We're reputed to have one of the tougher patient populations, but far and away most of my co-workers agree that the best thing about our floor is that it's a pretty tight unit. You don't go through a status epilepticus or uncontrolled A-fib without a sea of blue behind you.
Specializes in LTC,Hospice/palliative care,acute care.
I dont think they meant the reporting of unsafe acts by other nurses as "Eating thier young" I think what was meant was the unsupportive, ambivalent and somtimes outright nasty attitudes that some experianced nurses have toward the new nurses entering the field.
again it's all about perception.An inexperinced nurse may be feeling very insecure and even the most gentle/neutral attempt to offer constructive criticism may be met with major attitude.That's my point-this kind of thing is never just black and white.
I'm a student nurse who just got chewed out at clinicals by my jerk of an instructor who told me that I should do something else for a living. I've got to say yeah, alot of RN's and MSN's really do eat their young. I'm still recovering from the bite taken out of my side.
I'm a student nuic,rse who just got chewed out at clinicals by my jerk of an instructor who told me that I should do something else for a living. I've got to say yeah, alot of RN's and MSN's really do eat their young. I'm still recovering from the bite taken out of my side.
Sunspotmia:
I've been there, too. Though I'm willing to believe that this goes on in all professions, I've never seen such loathesome behavior in my life as the treatment of nursing students by instructors. I would report her for abuse, but then you would identify yourself as a troublemaker. My solution was to complete my training online - you'll have to decide if your skin is thick enough to deal with it. Can you hang in there? Once you graduate, you'll get to decide what kind of environment you want to work in. Some are extremely toxic, and will suck the life out of you, while others will make you happy to be part of a wonderful group of people. This is something that just kills me - in nursing school, I learned the concept of "assault" - you don't have to actually hit somebody to threaten them or cause harm in some way. Saying discouraging and mean things to a student causes damage to their self-confidence, and certainly doesn't contribute to learning. I'm so sorry this happened you, and equally sorry that this happens a lot. Kindness is an important virtue, especially for nurses. Go figure.
I have a threaded discussion going on now in my online class about collegiality. This thread is very pertinent to the one in my class. I must say you were very fortunate to work in an area where you had worked as an unlicenced personnel. In that case, I am not too sure if you would be considered a nurse's young. The staff was use to you and your work ethic. The relationship you had with them was already established. For nurses who are new to the field and to the unit the attitude toward them is one that is more critical. Older nurses are not only testing there skill but there work ethic. Interestingly, an author published in the journal of nursing management, Jane Baltimore, list some methods to promote collegiality among nurses. One of the methods she cited was for older nurses to model professional behaviors. She suggested that nurses check their ego at the door, validate assumptions before making judgements, and to reflect on thier own attitudes and short comings. I think you have an important point, older (those who train and precept other staff) must set the example and model behaviors they want to see from new nurses.
I have a threaded discussion going on now in my online class about collegiality. This thread is very pertinent to the one in my class. I must say you were very fortunate to work in an area where you had worked as an unlicenced personnel. In that case, I am not too sure if you would be considered a nurse's young. The staff was use to you and your work ethic. The relationship you had with them was already established. For nurses who are new to the field and to the unit the attitude toward them is one that is more critical. Older nurses are not only testing there skill but there work ethic. Interestingly, an author published in the journal of nursing management, Jane Baltimore, list some methods to promote collegiality among nurses. One of the methods she cited was for older nurses to model professional behaviors. She suggested that nurses check their ego at the door, validate assumptions before making judgements, and to reflect on thier own attitudes and short comings. I think you have an important point, older (those who train and precept other staff) must set the example and model behaviors they want to see from new nurses.
:welcome:
It's definitely helpful to know the personalities of those you will be working with. It's hard to overstate the value of just knowing where things are. It's helpful--in a way--to be 48 years old when you start nursing. Knees are shot, endurance isn't what you might wish, but life itself has a way of toughening your skin. "Horizontal violence" can take on a whole new meaning on a construction crew--although, typically, it doesn't. Usually, the hazing on a construction crew is in the form of playful teasing. Well, you get a bunch of blue-collar guys together, and I think it's understood that verbal violence can turn into physical violence pretty quickly, and by the time you're middle aged, a lot of the fun has gone out of physical violence, so you don't push people too far.
As for my current environment, I give a lot of credit to the "leaders" on my unit. Not so much management--they do their best, but they can only do so much. But there are nurses on each shift that we all look up to, and they set a tone for the whole crew. I like nights better than days, and weekend nights better than weekdays, because most of the weekend crew are permanent weekend nights. We know each other, know what to expect, and work with some of the most experienced nurses on our unit. There's a level of expertise, there, that helps us newbies keep crises in perspective and differentiate little problems from big ones. (That's not easy, when you're new.)
There are nurses on other shifts who also set the tone, and they do pretty well, too. Dayshift looks a little frantic to us nightowls, but that's because it's dayshift. I had some exposure to that during orientation, and there's often so much going on that you have to have a bit of tunnel-vision. Still, those with more experience are able to look around a bit and see whether someone is sinking.
There are examples on this thread of situations where the newbie (or even someone new to the unit) can't win. But I recall a nurse from another unit saying one night: "The only thing I can't teach is work ethic." She had an orientee whose skills weren't the greatest, but who showed up every day, willing to work and willing to learn. I think a newbie who models those qualities will be well-received more often than not.
I'm a new graduate. I finished the preceptor program 7months ago. I'm also on an ortho/neuro unit. The nurses I work with are very kind. I'm not sure where the expression came from?
Mulan
2,228 Posts
Share your theories please. I'm sure they would be helpful and offer
insight to others as well.