This vile expression implies that experienced nurses do not treat new nurses kindly. My first problem with the statement is that it’s a generalization implying that all nurses are like that. Interestingly, whenever I hear someone utter the expression, I always say, “I don’t do that. Do you?” The person making the statement always says, “Oh no, I don’t, but many others do.” I’ve never heard even one nurse own up to doing this, although some nurses are willing to indict the entire profession. Every time that statement is repeated, it causes harm and casts a dark shadow on every nurse. Say anything enough, and it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.
Please note that by moderator consensus some of the "Nurses Eat Their Young" posts will be referred to this thread where there can be an ongoing discussion, rather than several threads saying the same thing.
To students and new grads that are having problems with nurses, please take a moment to read the above link. Is it really the entire profession, every single nurse, or do you need help with one or a few nurses? We will be glad to help you in dealing with those people, but let bury the phrase "Nurses Eat Their Young".
To experienced nurses who claim our profession eats it's young, please take a moment to read it as well and think about it. Also take time to teach, be friendly and nurturing to the new nurse and students on your unit.
The reality is that a small but stubborn group of nurses continues to find ways to make the job painful for others, and newbies are especially vulnerable. The flip side of this reality is that most nurses aren't like this. Unfortunately, even among the nice nurses there are those who fear their own backsides will acquire bitemarks if they speak up to the bullies. But many of us can and do look out for the fledgling nurses and actually enjoy helping them to build their competence and confidence.
The problem that I see is that this is true of pretty much every profession/religion/caste/country in the world.
I have even heard from Pastors' wives about the internal strife and "politics" in churches , denominations and "support groups".
If there is an organized group, there will be trouble makers and dissension in it.....it is part of the human condition.
I do think that females DO talk about it more, while men experince it but don't discuss it as much. But I don't see males having less of it overall.
MDs will cooperate to a certain extent and then cut each other down in business....or steer consults/referrals accordingly...with them it is classed as "business" and "nothing personal". Women consider everything "personal", even their job. It is the same lateral violence just viewed differently and more acceptably with males.
The problem that I see is that this is true of pretty much every profession/religion/caste/country in the world.
I have even heard from Pastors' wives about the internal strife and "politics" in churches , denominations and "support groups".
If there is an organized group, there will be trouble makers and dissension in it.....it is part of the human condition.
I do think that females DO talk about it more, while men experince it but don't discuss it as much. But I don't see males having less of it overall.
MDs will cooperate to a certain extent and then cut each other down in business....or steer consults/referrals accordingly...with them it is classed as "business" and "nothing personal". Women consider everything "personal", even their job. It is the same lateral violence just viewed differently and more acceptably with males.
I agree.
In certain professions competition and ambition make watching your back a well-known and never-ending necessity. I've used this example before. No one is too surprised to hear that stock brokers and attorneys and surgeons can be cutthroat and cold toward each other. It goes with the territory. But nurses are perceived to be warm and caring and nurturing so insensitivity and cruelty seem that much more shocking by contrast. The female aspect only aggravates matters.
Another factor is that women are by nature team players. It's innate, probably having to do with needing to lean on each other when having babies and caring for our young ones. Men are by nature better at setting boundaries and giving consequences to anyone who crosses the line. Balanced people seek out the yin to their natural yang. While we have been active in encouraging men to learn how to connect better, we're still lagging in teaching women how to set limits and protect themselves from transgressors. It's a skill like any other that needs to be learned and practiced and we aren't very good at doing that yet.
It does help to remember that it usually isn't personal. But that doesn't always come easily when you're under fire.
The problem that I see is that this is true of pretty much every profession/religion/caste/country in the world.
I have even heard from Pastors' wives about the internal strife and "politics" in churches , denominations and "support groups".
If there is an organized group, there will be trouble makers and dissension in it.....it is part of the human condition.
I do think that females DO talk about it more, while men experince it but don't discuss it as much. But I don't see males having less of it overall.
MDs will cooperate to a certain extent and then cut each other down in business....or steer consults/referrals accordingly...with them it is classed as "business" and "nothing personal". Women consider everything "personal", even their job. It is the same lateral violence just viewed differently and more acceptably with males.
I agree. After all, wasn't it men who coined the phrase "it's a dog eat dog world" talking about themselves?
I also agree with the church stuff. I saw a lot of infighting during a financial chrisis at the Christian Church I belonged to. I recently called a friend who just quit another non-christian church because of the drama behind the scenes.
I agree. After all, wasn't it men who coined the phrase "it's a dog eat dog world" talking about themselves?
I also agree with the church stuff. I saw a lot of infighting during a financial chrisis at the Christian Church I belonged to. I recently called a friend who just quit another non-christian church because of the drama behind the scenes.
A story.
I went on a foreign mission for delivery of medical care. I was invited despite being not part of the dominant religion sponsoring it. The main church group involved was quite large and several pastors, assistant pastors, etc.
One of the younger newer pastor's wives was being shredded by some fellow "missionaries". About how her hair looked, cracks about her singing voice, her cooking, her mispronounciation of various local language words.
Now you know, that as pastor's wife she, is pretty much stuck with dealing with these "missionaries" and probably has to do a lot in the church that she was not trained to do because she is the pastor's wife (like singing, or having to go on missions, or hold herself a certain way) - but nastiness and trivialness of these people while working in a "mission" environment shocked me and my companion.
I got to talking with her, and she had to move with spouse even though she did not want to and her spouse was not being treated well by the "upper echelon". Much like the military, religious leaders often do not have much choice.
There is an old adage that says, "one bad apple spoils the whole barrel". so it goes with our profession. The public, and that really is our stage, our audience, doe not separate one good nurse from the one bad nurse. And that is true for nursing student as well. It is the one negative experience that is most memorable. Whether it is the first error we make or the first unkind respinse from the staff nurse or nursing instructor. A lasting impression is left. Of course not all nurses are insensitive or unkind, nor are we kind and supportive all the time. As a primarily female dominated profession, we are not always taken seriously and so in my opinion, we must pay close attention to our presentation with each other and our customers and that means that we can't continue to make excuses for those who are not helpful in promoting the profession by encouraging newbies whether they are students, agency nurses or new employees. This is not merely a nurse thing, I refer you to the book, "In the Company of Women" that speaks to the special issues surrounding females in the work place.
yes i think they do! but i dont think it's because they want to. at least at the facility i work at the orientation for new grads is just as stressful for the preceptor because the floors are so busy that you as the preceptor just dont have the time to stop and explain and review and check every detail, which is what really needs to be done. the orientee im sure feels the tension and stress and wants to run the other way or is afraid to ask any questions at all. at least thats what i find at my facility.
yes i think they do! but i dont think it's because they want to. at least at the facility i work at the orientation for new grads is just as stressful for the preceptor because the floors are so busy that you as the preceptor just dont have the time to stop and explain and review and check every detail, which is what really needs to be done. the orientee im sure feels the tension and stress and wants to run the other way or is afraid to ask any questions at all. at least thats what i find at my facility.
Unfortunately in some places the orientation is less than desirable, new grads getting their orientation cut short, having multiple preceptors, the preceptor having the worse assignments and extra patients "because there are two of you". That first year is one of those "only the strong survive" years that eat and swallow up new nurses.
you make some excellent points. This points to our need as a profession to advocate for "TRUE" preceptors, rather than pseudo trainers. Neither the new nurse nor the preceptor is able to receive or give their best.
SueBee, if I were an instructor and there was a student taking up a spot only to get their Masters in another profession and wasn't committed to nursing, I would probably put my efforts and concentration on those students with nursing as their goal. Not that I wouldn't try to find out why she's doing this and perhaps change her mind, but I would encourage to choose another major to get a Bachelor's in if she has no intention of being a nurse. Doesn't make much sense to me to continue on. To each his/her own I guess.
There are many dynamics that are part of the nursing shortage besides how we treat each other. Economics, management, family obligations, retiring and aging nurses, lack of instructors willing to accept low pay, etc. It's not just nurses mistreating nurses. I find for the most part nurses are very supportive and understanding of what we go through.
I strongly agree that many other factors contribute to nursing shortage but not just based on how we treat one another. I've left nursing before but decided to come back cos I've never forgotten the reason why I wanted to be a nurse in the beginning - to care for the sick and nursed them back to health, it's a wonderful job. I've learnt a great deal and become tougher even though I'll never foget how I was being treated by the mean and strict clinical instructor/senior nurses. Still I've never regretted being a nurse and am proud of my job.
Besides the young ones there are nurses who eat the old ones too! I've got 1 such particular colleague- mean and foul mouthed, never failed to irritate the other teammates on the job. Nobody likes to work with her including myself she's very senior but not wise. Someone that we dread to see. Hopefully she'll lost all her teeth 1 day and stop biting. HaHaHa!
This happens in other areas as well. I am not yet a nurse but where I work there is this colleague who reminded me of this saying in a meeting with her behavoir. Short story we went to self scheduling rotating shifts and it starts at the top of senority list to sign up well what happens is the newer people got stuck with either the crappiest or the evening shift constantly which defeats the reason for rotating, So an idea came up to rotate the sign up so that two times the top of list would start signing up and one time start from bottom to make it fair for all. She threw a fit saying that she worked her way up and they should just deal with it being that they are new. Now this person is maybe in the middle of list and the only person worried about senoirity. She even stated in the meeting that since she went threw the "school of hard knocks" so should the new people.
I personally dont believe that and always try to help every new person succeed because if they quit we work short and that is more stressful and we would have a problem with having to keep training new people. I believe everyone from new too most senior person has a right to be happy in their employment. I have been there seven years and am above this person in senority.
Sorry so long but this mentality is in other areas as well. I think it is just a personality thing with the people who perpertrate it.
Sorry if this aspect has been mentioned but I see it among nursing *students,* who are surely all in the same boat...but those a year ahead are just awful to the junior students, and those already in the program are awful to pre-req students- even though some of us have advanced degrees and experience in other fields! In my work as a doula I saw, unfortunately, too many terrible nurses whose treatment of each other can only be described as "eating each other alive-" in fact I have always had a secret fear about becoming a nurse- that somehow I would become one of those dreadful fiends. Of course I have seen many, many wonderful nurses who will continue to inspire me by one simple action, even though I don't know their names. But as others have pointed out, you see this among people everywhere, in every profession. It's just what human beings seem to do to one another.
leslymill
461 Posts
Well watch out, they love it cause they are experts at it.