This vile expression implies that experienced nurses do not treat new nurses kindly. My first problem with the statement is that it’s a generalization implying that all nurses are like that. Interestingly, whenever I hear someone utter the expression, I always say, “I don’t do that. Do you?” The person making the statement always says, “Oh no, I don’t, but many others do.” I’ve never heard even one nurse own up to doing this, although some nurses are willing to indict the entire profession. Every time that statement is repeated, it causes harm and casts a dark shadow on every nurse. Say anything enough, and it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.
Please note that by moderator consensus some of the "Nurses Eat Their Young" posts will be referred to this thread where there can be an ongoing discussion, rather than several threads saying the same thing.
To students and new grads that are having problems with nurses, please take a moment to read the above link. Is it really the entire profession, every single nurse, or do you need help with one or a few nurses? We will be glad to help you in dealing with those people, but let bury the phrase "Nurses Eat Their Young".
To experienced nurses who claim our profession eats it's young, please take a moment to read it as well and think about it. Also take time to teach, be friendly and nurturing to the new nurse and students on your unit.
I am not sure, any more, whether it is nurses eat their young or just each other period. There is a derision that I don't understand after being in the profession for 38 years. I have come to believe that it is a personal issue on the part of the "eater", not necessarily the "eaten". The lack in character should not be taken personally though I know it is hard.
I speak from a place of someone who has worked in almost every area of this profession. I have been working as a traveler and have found the same attitude towards this group of nurses. Truthfully, it blows my mind that the purpose for all of us to provide care in a setting that we all chose, at some point in our lives, seems to be forgotten. We care for those who are in need of our expertise and knowledge. We all graduated and qualified by the issuance of a license that says we are able to perform the function required of us. Grant it, how this is implemented individually is subjective. Are we just technicians or are we humans dealing with the human condition? This attitude is extended towards our respective wards and our peers. We all live on the same planet.
I believe the state of the medical community as a whole is reflective of the attitudes and intention of the individuals that comprise this profession. I am not surprised to encounter some of the just plain meanness on the part of those I have worked with though I have learned it takes a thick skinned person to deal with this attitude. It is still saddening much of the time.There are so many variables that effect how each of us function under the pressure that has grown over the years, in the medical community. I am forever grateful that I have been able to contribute to this area of life through service and for what I have received in return....appreciation from those whom I have cared for, monetary security that enabled me to care for my family and the many bonds that were created with fellow professionals.
I believe change is needed urgently. I feel that it is necessary to look truthfully at what has happened and what is happening in health care, not from the outside but from within. The heart of what we do has never been fully addressed in my mind, which is the giving of our hearts. Continuing to try and bolster a system that no longer serves optimally, including those that provide the service, is obviously demonstrated in the chaos that has been created by the current attempt to change the system that got us to where we are now. These "old ways" no longer can be supported. Until this is addressed and the heart of who we are is given a unified voice, by those in the profession, the pecking order will prevail.......
Bless us all in the coming times.....of transition and change.:redpinkhe
When I was a student I had some really nasty nurses that I had to deal with. I know it was probably due to stress. I swore when I became a nurse I would never make an already nervous student feel even worse. I have only been a nurse for a year and we have plenty of students on our unit and I have always treated then kindly. I just don't understand why someone would want to make another person feel badly.
I just know that whatever goes around comes around.
Specializes in CCU, SICU, CVSICU, Precepting & Teaching.
ruby, in reading your posts, i always think we could learn a lot from you, but you seem
defensive of the negative behavior of those nurses of whom we speak when we post on this issue! how long since you have been on the other side? you have been around a while and sounds like you know your stuff, but sometimes it is helpful to put yourself in someone elses shoes. i agree with a whole lot of what you say but there always is the catch of putting the responsibility on the shoulders of the newcomers.
mahage
i have never nor would i ever condone actual bullying, mobbing, lateral violence or whatever you wish to call it. but i've been around for a long time, and i don't think it's nearly as prevalent as some folks make it out to be. thirty years ago, maybe i would have believed it but with 20/20 hindsight i can see what my youthful arrogance and ignorance about healthcare contributed to the difficulties i had with my peers. as i grew as a person and in the job, folks around me treated me better. i have to conclude that it wasn't them; it was me.
it's easier to blame "nurses eating their young" for the difficulties one is having in getting along with one's colleagues than it is to admit that one is contributing to the problem. in so many of the posts on this board, it is clear to see that someone who is blaming bullying is really the cause of her own difficulties. anyone who claims that her peers "pick on me because i'm so much younger and better looking than they are" or "because i rock the er or or or icu and they're just jealous old hags who ought to retire anyway" is clearly having self-inflicted difficulties. in that case, the very best advice anyone can give them is to look at their own behavior.
many nurses who claim that there preceptors are mean to them are merely reacting to negative feedback that they don't wish to own. or the preceptor's communication style is more direct than they're comfortable with. or someone snapped at them to "push the damned lidocaine right now" because the patient was the priority, not the newbie's learning, questions or feelings. that's not lateral violence, that's just life.
i have seen very few bullies or mean, nasty nurses in the past 30 years since i grew up and engaged in some self-examination and self-assessment. i know there are a few out there, but not nearly as many as these boards would have you believe.
as a nurse, you are responsibile for your own learning, not your preceptor. the preceptor cannot spoon feed you everything you need to know. you need to pay attention, look things up, remember what you've learned and ask appropriate questions at appropriate times. i think some new nurses are just not taking responsibility for their own part in the less than perfect interactions between them and their new colleagues.
Really? Some of the most friendly and helpful nurses I have met are one my age or younger ( I am 30) and a new grad, less then 2 years experience most just fresh off orientation themselves.
On another note, not posted towards mb1949, but a general statement in light of this topic,
something I wanted to share on how I think YOUR attitude can change a bad experience around.
I have a friend in the program that is one of the most chill relaxed guys I have ever met. Never gets angry, never has attitude, does yoga, very earth friends, wants to do ameri corps when he is done. Totally easy going reliabal guy and so mature for his age, I can't believe all he has done and he is like 23, even traveled the world. Very good student as well, him and I studied many times together and he almost always did well in school and is not one to rock the boat in nursing school.
Anyway, he got a clinical instructor that was one of the "meaner ones" not mean as in, stern no nonsense, always heard a lot of complaints about her from all kinds of students all semester and it appeared she especially didn't like guys. Didn't think guys should go into nursing. So he was telling me how he almost got written up, the teacher threatened him or he did actually get written up, I can't remember which it was. He already was trying to make the best of a crappy situation because she always made degrading comments about the male nurses. So I was really surprised and asked him what on earth he would have gotten written up for. He tells me she said he had to much attitude. I about died laughing (ok not that dramatic) but seriously, him attitude??? Not buying it. So I asked him what happened and he said during his assesment she kept stopping him and scolding him and embarrassing him. He said the pt just seemed kind of uncomfortable with the whole situation. So the instructor got on him about something, I don't remember what, but that it was probably annoying the patient or something of the sort. So while he was redoing that part, he asked the patient was that ok to make sure he wasn't annoying them or anything. He said after that she was so upset and that attitude was totally unacceptable etc etc. He didn't know what to do because he thought he was doing what he should do and wanted to take to heart what she said and make sure the Pt. was OK with what was happening.
So here you have this student and this was his second clinical day with 11 more to go for the next 6 weeks and right then and there he could have let this ruin his whole clinical experience and looked at it as like a jail sentence. We only had 3 guys in the program, 1 we lost this semester a few weeks ago so only 2 now and this guy was the only one at this hospital from our class, so he didn't even have someone to share the "heat" with. But he decided to not let his clinical experience go this way, so he tried to get a better feel for the instructor. After doing that he then decided she was someone that liked to feel like the go to person for her students, the type that wanted students to actually depend on her a lot and not be so independent more then normal, like other instructors want you to learn to function more on your own. Hopefully that makes sense. So the next couple shifts he made sure to go to her and ask her a few questions, nothing dumb, something that would make her feel useful and feel like she was sharing her wealth of knowledge, she felt that guys in general feel like they know more then everyone especially young guys. Although he wasn't like this, she just had a biased towards all the guys. So he would find something important, even if he really knew, and he would go to her and ask her to show him this procedure or the rationale behind this or that. He said by a couple shifts later her attitude towards him had completely changed and he had a really great experience the rest of our clinical rotation.
The point is, when faced with someone that is mean or rude to you, make it a challenge, learn about them and get their attitude towards you to change. Be smart about it, and go about it the right way. You can't change them all but I bet you can change the minds of a few that didn't like you. But no matter what, don't let it ruin YOUR experience. Honestly, if more then half the people you work with are "mean" to you, it might be time for some self evaluation.
Again, this is a general statement and not directed towards anyone in particular.
I think that was a great story of dealing with an instructor who has an attitude. The guy sounds like he will really be a good nurse. Fortunately I have never had an instructor who was anything but supportive. I liked all my instructors. This might be partcular to my school but they were great.
i have never nor would i ever condone actual bullying, mobbing, lateral violence or whatever you wish to call it. but i've been around for a long time, and i don't think it's nearly as prevalent as some folks make it out to be. thirty years ago, maybe i would have believed it but with 20/20 hindsight i can see what my youthful arrogance and ignorance about healthcare contributed to the difficulties i had with my peers. as i grew as a person and in the job, folks around me treated me better. i have to conclude that it wasn't them; it was me.
it's easier to blame "nurses eating their young" for the difficulties one is having in getting along with one's colleagues than it is to admit that one is contributing to the problem. in so many of the posts on this board, it is clear to see that someone who is blaming bullying is really the cause of her own difficulties. anyone who claims that her peers "pick on me because i'm so much younger and better looking than they are" or "because i rock the er or or or icu and they're just jealous old hags who ought to retire anyway" is clearly having self-inflicted difficulties. in that case, the very best advice anyone can give them is to look at their own behavior.
many nurses who claim that there preceptors are mean to them are merely reacting to negative feedback that they don't wish to own. or the preceptor's communication style is more direct than they're comfortable with. or someone snapped at them to "push the damned lidocaine right now" because the patient was the priority, not the newbie's learning, questions or feelings. that's not lateral violence, that's just life.
i have seen very few bullies or mean, nasty nurses in the past 30 years since i grew up and engaged in some self-examination and self-assessment. i know there are a few out there, but not nearly as many as these boards would have you believe.
as a nurse, you are responsibile for your own learning, not your preceptor. the preceptor cannot spoon feed you everything you need to know. you need to pay attention, look things up, remember what you've learned and ask appropriate questions at appropriate times. i think some new nurses are just not taking responsibility for their own part in the less than perfect interactions between them and their new colleagues.
once again, i agree with every thing you say about a person's responsibility and need for self examination and assessment, except the need to minimize the existence of lateral violence which makes learning so much harder and good patient care so much more dfficult to deliver. research has shown it exists and detracts from both retention and patient safety.
I am a student, but I don't think that gives a protection, in fact, it seems that we are often seen as the bottom of the pecking order. The rude people I have seen were pleasant with everyone else BUT the students. A lot of times the nurses are assigned co students without much of a choice to where those that orient the new nurses sign up for it. (at least at my hospital). Being a student I talk to a lot of new grads since they are so fresh out of school and so far not one of them has had anything bad to say that would fit the "nurses eat their young" scheme of things. I can tell you, I have seen a lot of unity on all the floors I have been on and the only "negative talk" I have seen much of was shift to shift. Day shifters complaining about evening crew and stuff but not a lot amongst each other. Also being a student and going from nurse to nurse (especially with all the shift changes I am there for) I get to be a really good fly on the way and I am really good at observing a situation and getting a feel for it. It's one of my strong points probably from growing up in violence and always having to be aware of things going on, and believe me, I am very much a realist. I don't go around wearing rose colored glasses. I do though have a very good attitude when I step onto the floor and it has shown in the feedback my instructor gets about me and on my evals. When I encounter a rude nurse I either stay out of her way, or if that is not an option I stay polite, I don't get snippy and I try to get to know them a little better and more often then not, by the end of my shift, they have a much better attitude towards me.
2 of my best friends in my real life, we started off not liking each other.
At the same time though, I think attitude determines about 90% of your work experience. As in how you mesh with people and patients, not talking about your physical experience although that can play a role too.
You're right, I don't know what it's like to personally be a new grade, but I don't think someone goes from enjoying students, to eating and spitting out the new grades. I mean students come and go, the new grad hired on will most likely be with them for a while which is reason in itself to not try and be nice.
Not everyone is like this of course, but it's just what I observe. If this has been your experience, I am not trying to downplay that at all, just giving my observations and I hope things get better.
Sorry for any major typos or sentences that don't make sense. lol it's late and I just worked a 12 basically because I had to go in for patient research a couple hours before my shift, had 1 stroke alert, 1 code and I am trying to wind down lol
The bottom line is that as a new grad nurse, you are responsible for the patient's lives while you are building your skills. That is a tremendous pressure. As a student you are not responsible for the life of the patient. You also generally have a clinical instructor to turn to if your nurse is not available or willing. It sounds as if you have your act together as a nursing student, but take it from one who has survived the transition, the first 8 months will leave you reeling and then you will realize that things are getting better if you hang around. If you read back a lot of posts from folks who are really desperate they are in their first few months off precepting. I have colleagues who told me they cried every day their first few months. I have a meditation spot out back of my house where I would park and watch birds and review the events of the day every morning. If I needed to cry, I did it there, I also did a lot of praying and introspection. I started work in the winter and my spot has holly berries and lots of birds. I hope you and every other new grad is lucky enough to have such a spot or whatever you need to cope and leave the negativity.
I love my job and am really glad I hung with it. I have license in Social Work and going back was so tempting in those early months, but I am stubborn and my overall attitude was "bring it on!" I have been a clinical instructor in Social Work and have been fortunate enough to do clinical instruction in psych nursing this past semester. I love working with students both as a nurse on the floor and as a clinical instructor. I feel like now I have the best of both worlds. I have seen some students who definately do not want to take responsibility for their own learning, and I have seen nurses who refuse to be patient enough to allow a student to learn anything. When in my instructor role, I can intervene with the student and clarify exectations, and I can see that the student has some opportunity to learn and practice skills.
Does this Issue have something to do with the organizational culture instilled in the institution? Because, while training in a hospital (which I still am) during our orientation we were encouraged by the nurse supervisors to report staff nurses who "makes our lives difficult professionally", I just don't know how they resolve or handle such issues.
And Oh, I am still an advanced BEGINNER in my profession. :) I get scared with Nurses WHO BITE. Talk about nursing our profession. Where is the love Nurses? We always have to be reminded every now and then about our profession, about living up to our title. We care for people, we should have the genuine heart to do that and that should reflect in our character not just to our client but also to our co-workers.
Specializes in Plastics. General Surgery. ITU. Oncology.
Good point nurseLOVEonduty. It can have very much to do with the organisation, the staffing levels, morale and individual unit or ward politics.
I'll tell you a tale. Despite my long experience when my ward was shut down and I was forced to move to another hospital in the same NHS Trust I was treated (on a surgical ward) like an absolute dogsbody, given the busiest bays, no help to orientate to General surgery after years on a specialist ward and criticised harshly for every tiny mistake I made.
I had been qualified 16 years. Knew my stuff, stood my ground and was taken to task for "Having an attitude". No patient ever suffered because I didn't do my job properly although some of the lazy arrogant "colleagues" around me got away with murder.
So it isn't just a case of the newly-qualified encountering these problems. Some wards are just toxic having evolved a "blame" culture out of fear, inadequate staffing and bad managerial practice.
Needless to say I quit that hospital. My new Unit? A wonderful supportive place that loves students and new nurses just as my original ward did.
Definitely I experienced nurses eating their young first hands during my orientation period..I was told I must come from a lousy school because I never administered a flu shot,I caught my preceptor talking behind my back on several occasion,she humiliated me on numerous of occasions,she suggested to my manager "that I'm stupid" I was afraid to ask questions because she seems to be bother by it and brushed me off,she grabbed my drug book from my hands and told me I cannot carry it with me (talking about aggresive behavior)..and guess what she was not an older nurse,she was young married women who has been in a field for a quite some time (couple of years)
They do not eat their young but they go through nursing bootcamp. If they make it they are good nurses... if not....they usually quit or do not make it through probation.
Specializes in Wound care, Surgery,Infection control.
They do not eat their young but they go through nursing bootcamp. If they make it they are good nurses... if not....they usually quit or do not make it through probation.
To Linc2010 and those who Just Don't Get It - What will it take to make you realize that we have a serious problem? Post after post, nurses are NOT saying " I can't do the job", they are not whining about patient loads, long hours, or complicated paperwork.
You make a joke and call it "boot-camp". These men and women are college graduates, licensed by the state. They were hired for a nursing position that requires training, not jumping through a hoop for your amusement. The comment "If they make it they are good nurses, if not they will quit" indicates the mythical Bully Nurse is alive and well : insecure and self centered, putting patients at risk to make yourself look good.
Sorry, I truly didn't mean to offend you. Please accept my apology. :) You seemed really mad and I never want to make any person mad. Please do not take it personally, it was not meant that way. And I was not making a joke. This is a very serious issue.
The media makes light of nursing and recruits people that should not be in the profession, sometimes, although rarely. But, it does happen. It is sad for the people, that screening is not more thorough at the proper place in their career, like I refer to in my previous comment.
There are floor nurses and ICU nurses and both have their own challenges and strengths. Not everyone is meant for or wants to be an ICU nurse.
It is just a fact, one particular senior nurse who shall remain nameless, is an excellent mentor, but not everyone makes it in an ICU. The nurses all call it"_____(last name of the nurse of 18 years and every unit discipline undertaken in her career) Boot Camp."
The ones that make it, do not "twirl" when asked to multi-task, as nurses must learn how to do to survive, and thrive, while being interrupted three times, by almost every department in the hospital, while keeping track of everything the patients and families need, plus what their managers need, all the while staying sane and delivering the best patient care.
The new nurses that make it through preception respect her for making them better nurses. The other ones, unfortunately quit or do not make it past probation and/or are shortly thereafter fired.
Not a joke WarmBlanket but reality in the ICU. They are not meant to be ICU nurses.(my opinion only) There are many different types of nurses, all of equal value to the patient. The ones that do not make it in the ICU didn't belong there in the first place. You may or may not like this statement, but it is true as far as I have experienced. Boot Camp weeds out the nurses who have the potential for bolting during an emergent situation where, they being part of a well-oiled team is very important, people's lives count on them being able to do the job appropriately, it is absolutely necessary. No room for more error if we can avoid it. That is all I meant.
Shaka
23 Posts
I am not sure, any more, whether it is nurses eat their young or just each other period. There is a derision that I don't understand after being in the profession for 38 years. I have come to believe that it is a personal issue on the part of the "eater", not necessarily the "eaten". The lack in character should not be taken personally though I know it is hard.
I speak from a place of someone who has worked in almost every area of this profession. I have been working as a traveler and have found the same attitude towards this group of nurses. Truthfully, it blows my mind that the purpose for all of us to provide care in a setting that we all chose, at some point in our lives, seems to be forgotten. We care for those who are in need of our expertise and knowledge. We all graduated and qualified by the issuance of a license that says we are able to perform the function required of us. Grant it, how this is implemented individually is subjective. Are we just technicians or are we humans dealing with the human condition? This attitude is extended towards our respective wards and our peers. We all live on the same planet.
I believe the state of the medical community as a whole is reflective of the attitudes and intention of the individuals that comprise this profession. I am not surprised to encounter some of the just plain meanness on the part of those I have worked with though I have learned it takes a thick skinned person to deal with this attitude. It is still saddening much of the time.There are so many variables that effect how each of us function under the pressure that has grown over the years, in the medical community. I am forever grateful that I have been able to contribute to this area of life through service and for what I have received in return....appreciation from those whom I have cared for, monetary security that enabled me to care for my family and the many bonds that were created with fellow professionals.
I believe change is needed urgently. I feel that it is necessary to look truthfully at what has happened and what is happening in health care, not from the outside but from within. The heart of what we do has never been fully addressed in my mind, which is the giving of our hearts. Continuing to try and bolster a system that no longer serves optimally, including those that provide the service, is obviously demonstrated in the chaos that has been created by the current attempt to change the system that got us to where we are now. These "old ways" no longer can be supported. Until this is addressed and the heart of who we are is given a unified voice, by those in the profession, the pecking order will prevail.......
Bless us all in the coming times.....of transition and change.:redpinkhe