My best friend has a B.A. already but she would love to be an R.N. She is very smart; received her B.A. with high honors and was on the dean's list all 4 years while at college. But most importantly, she is super caring not only with people, but also with animals, and even insects (literally she would never hurt a bee or a beetle!) She has been volunteering at our Nursing Home where I work. She truly feels for some of our residents who either don't have any relatives or are not visited often. She would talk to them and is sincerely interested in their stories and lives before they entered the facility. I just see her as one of the best nurses out there who would really make a difference! I spoke with her about it and there is just one problem that prevents her from starting working towards an RN degree, and that is she is EXTREMELY allergic to immunizations including TB test and strongly opposes to unnecessary x-ray exposure. She has always had a positive TB test because she is allergic to it. Her chest X-rays are of course crystal clear. She's been told by a doctor that it is an allergic reaction. She also strongly disagrees with the fact that as an R.N. or even to enroll into any nursing program she has to undergo a chest x-ray just because she is allergic to TB test. It doesn't make sense to her why she has to undergo unnecessary radiation exposure (that is cumulative) just to be proving that she doesn't have tuberculosis. I wonder if there are any other methods besides outdated TB test (that often gives false results), and yearly cancer-promoting x-rays?? Is there anything else that she, and anybody in similar situation, can do in order to show that they in fact are healthy and tuberculosis free? Anyways, any suggestions, experiences and insights about this subject would be appreciated! She will be reading your answers; I told her I'm posting a thread about her dilemma. Thank you all and best wishes!
Specializes in Complex pedi to LTC/SA & now a manager.
We discussed her situation over and over and OVER again, and by now I do know all the facts and details about this. As I became a little frustrated over the fact that all of that bureaucracy is in fact not helping us as individuals, neither does it benefit the society as a whole. So, ignorant people who are not really supposed to have PPD done if they had it positive before, do it anyways, and get a bunch of unnecessary x-ray exposure, yet they get the job ONLY because they are ignorant about their own health and well-being. On the other hand, people who ARE smart and educated and do care about their health, as well as about other people's health, get weed out. Doesn't seem fair to me.
Then put up the $$ for the blood test or find a different career that doesn't require twice a year TB screening. You are over complicating the situation and not listening to what anyone has told you.
Having documentation of a previous positive ppd necessitates either blood tests or cxr going forward for the safety of the healthcare worker and the patients.
Okay, I think that's enough. You and your "friend" seem to only want to hear what you believe. I'm not sure what the point of you coming here asking for advice is if you don't want to hear it.
You were told there is a blood test available. You were also told this is expensive and not often an option. You have had facts presented to you about the safety of chest xrays. You've also been told that testing is necessary for school/job and the reasons why.
If you/friend don't like it, she has every right in the world to not go to nursing school. There are a million people willing to get a CXR and take her place, all of them equally as caring/compassionate/the best nurse evaaarrrrr as your friend.
I do understand your point of view. The price of blood test for TB does not matter, she would do it in a heart beat if after that mantoux test and X-ray will NOT be required. As we do all agree testing IS necessary but X-RAY is proven to cause cancer, no matter the dose!!! A scientific fact, proven looooong time ago. It's still cumulative and therefore, ANY DOSE cannot be deemed "safe". What am exploring here are other SAFER methods to rule out TB. Plus remember, we know she doesn't have it, it's been proven already by series of x-rays in the past, now that the images are over 5 years, she has to prove again to "someone", only not to herself.
Yes, I do agree with you that there are a million people willing to get a CXR and be a nurse, what I do not agree with is that they are CARING. How can they be caring if they don't care about their own health, exposing themselves to radiation, and not trying to search for other less harmful methods to screen TB. In addition, there are so many RNs (I'm sure you all know a few) who are just plain dumb and not intelligent. How they passed a nursing program, that's a mystery, maybe it was back in the days when they were only required to be trained for 3 to 6 months. Then, there are those who are smart but are NOT COMPASSIONATE. They only entered this field because of money, and that's their life goal. They do ONLY what is required, not a single thing more. I see both of the types all the time. That's why I started to wonder about such people as my friend who I saw has a potential and willingness to be a magnificent nurse, yet for bureaucratic reasons she probably will never be one.
I do understand your point of view. The price of blood test for TB does not matter, she would do it in a heart beat if after that mantoux test and X-ray will NOT be required. As we do all agree testing IS necessary but X-RAY is proven to cause cancer, no matter the dose!!! A scientific fact, proven looooong time ago. It's still cumulative and therefore, ANY DOSE cannot be deemed "safe". What am exploring here are other SAFER methods to rule out TB. Plus remember, we know she doesn't have it, it's been proven already by a serious of x-rays in the past, now that the images are over 5 years, she has to prove again to "someone", only not to herself.
Yes, I do agree with you that there are a million people willing to get a CXR and be a nurse, what I do not agree with is that they are CARING. How can they be caring if they don't care about their own health, exposing themselves to radiation, and not trying to search for other less harmful methods to screen TB. In addition, there are so many RNs (I'm sure you all know a few) who are just plain dumb and not intelligent. How they passed a nursing program, that's a mystery, maybe it was back in the days when they were only required to be trained for 3 to 6 months. Then, there are those who are smart but are NOT COMPASSIONATE. They only entered this field because of money, and that's their life goal. They do ONLY what is required, not a single thing more. I see both of the types all the time. That's why I started to wonder about such people as my friend who I saw has a potential and willingness to be a magnificent nurse, yet for bureaucratic reasons she probably will never be a one.
This reply is ridiculous and unnecessary. If she's willing to get blood work done every year, then she can go and do that. And you can stop attempting to insult the intelligence of everyone on here. I'm not sure what your credentials are, if you have any, but I'm honestly not even sure what you're talking about anymore or why.
Hope you and your friend have no qualms about your patients getting necessary xrays and other treatments in which the benefits outweigh potential risks. I have a feeling your friend is in for a real [poop] storm if she were to ever face the realities of being a nurse, which are far more involved than talking to people in a nursing home and holding their hands.
flyersfan88, I am not insulting the intelligence of anyone on here. In fact, I was thanking almost every body for their feedback, even if it contradicted my opinions. What I was talking about in my previous post that you deemed "ridiculous and unnecessary" is about some RNs that I encountered AT MY WORK PLACE. I was definitely not talking about anybody here, as I do not know them, and in fact, almost all of the replies I have read here have some interesting points and advice! So, I just want to thank all once again who took the time to share their thoughts and info on the subject. Best wishes!
This reply is ridiculous and unnecessary. If she's willing to get blood work done every year, then she can go and do that. And you can stop attempting to insult the intelligence of everyone on here. I'm not sure what your credentials are, if you have any, but I'm honestly not even sure what you're talking about anymore or why.
Hope you and your friend have no qualms about your patients getting necessary xrays and other treatments in which the benefits outweigh potential risks. I have a feeling your friend is in for a real [poop] storm if she were to ever face the realities of being a nurse, which are far more involved than talking to people in a nursing home and holding their hands.
You do understand that though she was negative in the past she may have been exposed in the last 6 months that is why we all get screened for TB annually at a minimum. I had my blood test last July, I may have been exposed since then. I will need another blood test this July or I am not allowed to work. If it is positive I will have to, and want to get a chest X-ray. We had so many workers who received BCG that we no longer do the skin test.
Specializes in Mental Health, Gerontology, Palliative.
We discussed her situation over and over and OVER again, and by now I do know all the facts and details about this. As I became a little frustrated over the fact that all of that bureaucracy is in fact not helping us as individuals, neither does it benefit the society as a whole.
What, ensuring that diseases like TB doesnt get passed on to immunicompromised patients does not benefit society as a whole? Hardly
So, ignorant people who are not really supposed to have PPD done if they had it positive before, do it anyways, and get a bunch of unnecessary x-ray exposure, yet they get the job ONLY because they are ignorant about their own health and well-being.
I get the job because I'm the best person who applied. If that requires me to pee in a cup or get a chest X-ray, get tested for MRSA or what ever the hell else to ensure I'm not putting my patients at risk by passing on diseases that for many could be fatal
On the other hand, people who ARE smart and educated and do care about their health, as well as about other people's health, get weed out. Doesn't seem fair to me.
It is what is is. If your friend doesnt want to undergo those requirements to be a nurse then she needs to find another career. You have been provided with plenty of science and education about why your friends concerns are unfounded and have ignored it all. The rules are what they are and wont change for one person.
Specializes in Mental Health, Gerontology, Palliative.
I'm going to use myself as an example. I have fibromyalgia, among other things I deal with chronic fatigue and chronic pain on a daily basis. Friends asked me how I was going to cope when I started my nursing. sometimes I would come home from placement and sleep for several hours before I could do any course work, spent a couple of hours and had tea and might be back in bed again at 7pm to be at clinical by 0645 the next morning.
Why is this relevant? The system is what it is, and it doesnt change without a damm good evidenced based reason. I could have moaned and demanded that the system made allowances for my disability. However reality is I would have been sadly disappointed.
Your friend has two choices. She can whinge and moan about how unfair it is she has to do these things to be a nurse and not achieve her dream. Or she can find out what she needs to do to get it done safely for her and do it and achieve her dream.
She has choices, they may not be choices she likes however they are choices.
Yes, I do agree with you that there are a million people willing to get a CXR and be a nurse, what I do not agree with is that they are CARING. How can they be caring if they don't care about their own health, exposing themselves to radiation, and not trying to search for other less harmful methods to screen TB. In addition, there are so many RNs (I'm sure you all know a few) who are just plain dumb and not intelligent. How they passed a nursing program, that's a mystery, maybe it was back in the days when they were only required to be trained for 3 to 6 months. Then, there are those who are smart but are NOT COMPASSIONATE. They only entered this field because of money, and that's their life goal. They do ONLY what is required, not a single thing more. I see both of the types all the time. That's why I started to wonder about such people as my friend who I saw has a potential and willingness to be a magnificent nurse, yet for bureaucratic reasons she probably will never be one.
OK, I was (somewhat) with you until this. I can certainly see why your friend is concerned about unnecessary radiation exposure given her childhood experiences near Chernobyl. However, it makes zero sense to imply that people who get unnecessary radiation cannot be caring. We do tons of unnecessary X-rays and CT scans (the latter of which is a significant radiation exposure)--those patients (some of whom are nurses, CNAs, etc), by your definition, cannot be caring.
As for the money issue--this is way off your original subject--there is another current thread that talks about people who get into nursing for the money. General consensus there (and I agree with said consensus) is that getting into nursing for the money does not make someone a bad/non-compassionate nurse.
Most experts seem to agree that prior BCG vaccination (given more than 10 years previously) will not cause a >10-14mm induration in reaction to TST, even in the case of serial testing. But that is a moot point, as additional testing is required to verify anyways.
Sent from my iPhone.
Interesting, I hadn't read that, will check into it though. We've actually had several patients whose positive PPD was attributed to BCG vaccination >10 yrs ago, after follow up IGRA testing was negative.
Yes, I do agree with you that there are a million people willing to get a CXR and be a nurse, what I do not agree with is that they are CARING. How can they be caring if they don't care about their own health, exposing themselves to radiation, and not trying to search for other less harmful methods to screen TB.
I'm not sure that I understand. First of all, are you saying that if you don't take perfect care of yourself, that fact automatically renders you incapable of caring for someone else? What about the low-income single parent who neglects her/his health by not seeing a dentist on a regular basis and instead chooses to use her/his money to feed her/his child? Is that person not capable of caring?
Secondly, if a healthcare worker won't screen for tuberculosis and the reason is concern for the healthcare workers health/safety then that's not proof of caring for other people. Arguably a nurse who hasn't ascertained their TB status, poses a risk to her/his patients.
OP, I can certainly understand the concern about radiation exposure that you friend has, given her background. Was she in or around Chernobyl in 1986? However I must admit that I find your passion on the subject of chest x-rays a bit more difficult to understand. It seems to match hers. As previously mentioned, 0.02 mSv is a very low dose, even when repeated anually. Ionizing radiation does pose a health risk, but refusing a chest x-ray and never travelling by airplane seems a bit over the top. As i said earlier, your friend's fears are understandable due her background but her fears seem to interfere with her life. It's making her travel in a very time-consuming way and it seems to be keeping her from a job that she thinks she would enjoy. The above activities generate very low effective doses and (background) radiation is an ever-present and inescapable fact of life on this planet.
A slight tangent.. I have a beautiful black granite countertop in my kitchen, despite being aware of the risks of radon daugthers/progeny and alpha particles. (They are certainly a bigger risk than a regular PA chest film).
( And I still manage to care for my patients )
In addition, there are so many RNs (I'm sure you all know a few) who are just plain dumb and not intelligent.
I'm sure this is true. The IQ of nurses probably varies, just like it does in most other professions. But why is this relevant to this discussion?
That's why I started to wonder about such people as my friend who I saw has a potential and willingness to be a magnificent nurse, yet for bureaucratic reasons she probably will never be one.
But it isn't really bureaucracy that's keeping your friend back, is it? It seems to me that it's her concerns/fears that is the main obstacle. As it stands she has a choice to make, and she's the only one who can make it.
)
JustBeachyNurse, LPN
13,957 Posts
Then put up the $$ for the blood test or find a different career that doesn't require twice a year TB screening. You are over complicating the situation and not listening to what anyone has told you.
Having documentation of a previous positive ppd necessitates either blood tests or cxr going forward for the safety of the healthcare worker and the patients.