Do I REALLY need a BSN?

[myschuler]

Hi. I just graduate with my ADN as a second career. Before that, I was full time mom and before that I was an attorney (yeah, weird, I know). So, I'm hearing here and there that if I want even a chance at a hospital residency position (I want to be in the ICU one day), I need a BSN. But I keep thinking, "really? I already have a B.A. and a J.D.!" My original plan was to work, gain experience, and then go for a masters in a clinical specialty. But now, I'm now sure. I just can't believe that all my other experience and education doesn't count, especially when the BSN program really doesn't have any clinical component -- it's just more research and writing. I'm working in a really well run SNF, so I'm not really unhappy, but my dream has been to be in the ICU. I'll do what it takes but I'd like to know what other people have heard before I jump back into school. Thanks!

[Kidrn911]

It depends if your hospital is Magnet or not. Magnet screws everything up for us ADN types

[PMFB-RN, RN]

The reality is that many employers, mine included, place value on higher levels of education. Either give them what they want or be excluded

*** Yes, you are right. However I have been in this game long enough to see the pendulum swing different ways.

It kind of cracks me up to hear people argue so strongly AGAINST education.

*** I actually haven't seen anyone make that argument here. If they have and I missed it please point it out to me.

There are different kinds of education. One can become quite well educated outside the traditional college class room. For example I attended a very intense nine month nurse residency after nursing school and gained tremendous knowlage and skills. I think one could easily make the same arguments in favor of requiring a similar nurse residency that are currently being used to advocate for BSN only hiring. I very much fear that only one kind of education is being considered valuable and that will be a detrament to our chosen field.

One of the things I have alwasy seen as a strength of nursing is our diversity. People come to nursing from all walks of life and bring experinces and perspectives I think are very valuable. A great many of these people enter nursing through the community college ADN programs. Without the local and inexpensive community college nursing programs nursing wouldn't be an option. I think losing a large percentage of those people would greatly weaken nursing.

I had a nursing instructor point out to me that nursing is the only field in which higher levels of education are deemed inferior.

*** One thing I have always wondered. PAs also have several entry points to their profession starting at the associates degree. I frequient the PA forums and never see this discussed at all. It just doesn't seem to be an issue for them. Why is it with us?

[PMFB-RN, RN]

Our BSN is 4 years, 2 semesters each year. I'm not exactly certain how many credit hours, but I do know that all BSN students are required to complete 1500 clinical hours. No exceptions. If you miss clinical, you make up the hours or fail the year. We also have no online BSN programs in Canada. Students must attend class, which I think is a positive.

*** Thank you. I was wondering if Canada has the 3 year BSN typical of many other english speaking countries where BSN is required.

[redhead_NURSE98!, ADN, BSN]

Classic straw-man...

I would rather have -- on average -- 15-year veteran RNs who had baccalaureate and postbaccalaureate education.

I'd rather have that too. But see, there's what's called a COM-PAR-I-SON there in my statement, as opposed to yours.

If you don't agree that experience is the best teacher, I don't guess you have much experience in anything.

[Music in My Heart]

I'd rather have that too. But see, there's what's called a COM-PAR-I-SON there in my statement, as opposed to yours.

If you don't agree that experience is the best teacher, I don't guess you have much experience in anything.

And if you can't engage in civil dialogue without the need for petty put-downs then perhaps...

oh well, I'll refrain from the counter-flame...

[redhead_NURSE98!, ADN, BSN]

Just thought you needed help understanding the difference in the two statements, since you also believe people are "arguing against education."

[CrunchRN, ADN, RN]

The whole BSN vs ADN merits and value argument is a waste of breath.

The reality is that with a saturated market there is a preference for BSN over ADN at many places so for those of us with ADN's this may limit our options more and more.

So, do I want to get my BSN? No. However I have been a nurse for a long time. If I was jsut starting out like the OP I would definitely go the BSN route if I could afford it.

[PMFB-RN, RN]

The whole BSN vs ADN merits and value argument is a waste of breath.

The reality is that with a saturated market there is a preference for BSN over ADN at many places so for those of us with ADN's this may limit our options more and more.

So, do I want to get my BSN? No. However I have been a nurse for a long time. If I was jsut starting out like the OP I would definitely go the BSN route if I could afford it.

*** Ya your right. However something that tends to get lost in these discussions, every ADN is only 12 to 24 months of part time online classes away from being a BSN. It doesn't have to be one or the other. It can be both.

[PMFB-RN, RN]

The reality is that many employers, mine included, place value on higher levels of education. Either give them what they want or be excluded

*** Maybe. I have to say that I often wonder about this. It it true, or is it a case on a little revenge? Let's face it. In an enviroment where an ADN is at no disadvantage for getting that first job, like has been the case for a long time until just a few years ago, the ADN grad has a HUGE advantage over the BSN grad.

Lets consider Dick and Jane. Both high school senior and both want to be RNs and both live in my state and both have ambitions for managment or, let's say CRNA school.

Dick graduates and heads down to the local community college and enrolls in the ADN program. The total cost is about $6,500 and takes two years. After two years Dick lands a job is a large hospital's nurse residency program for new grads going directly into the ICU. Dick's hospital also has a program to pick up 100% of the cost of an RN to BSN program so Dick enrolls and finishes in two years of part time school and full time work. It's now 4 years since high school graduation. Dick is an RN BSN (maybe CCRN too)with 2 years of solid ICU experience under his belt. Plus he also made about $120K, had good health insurance, and made contributions to his 401K over those two years working. He owes nothing in student loans and gets to keep his paycheck instead of making student loan paytments. He has made many contacts in the hospital and has proven himself a good worker. He is well positioned to apply for an assistant nurse manager job, or apply to CRNA school.

Meanwhile Jane has enrolled in and graduated from the local universitie's BSN program. The program cost $12K a year and she had to barrow about $40K to graduate. She has zero nursing experience, has made no money and is applying for her first nursing job as an unknown with few contacts. Let's say she gets hired into the same nurse residency Dick did. Soon Jane is introduced to her night shift preceptor, her old high school buddy Dick. Jane learns that Dick has applied for an assistant nurse manager job and also has an interview with a CRNA program.

Now it would be reasonable for Jane to wonder, while she is making out her student loan payment check, why she bothered to study so hard in high school so that she could get accepted into Local Sate U?

I wonder if the AACN staff and many hospital nurse managers are "Janes" who now find themselves in a position for a little payback?

[nursel56]

Such a pointless debate.

The reality is that many employers, mine included, place value on higher levels of education. Either give them what they want or be excluded... no different than any other profession (the vast majority of which require, formally or informally, baccalaureate degrees).

It kind of cracks me up to hear people argue so strongly AGAINST education.

I had a nursing instructor point out to me that nursing is the only field in which higher levels of education are deemed inferior.

I'd say your nursing instructor is needlessly perpetuating an us vs them attitude in nursing by saying something like that, because I've never heard anyone say higher levels of education are inferior.

Completely aside from the current argument, the entire controversy was started when a group of nurses in 1965 began to attack the education levels of ADN and diploma nurses and they haven't let up since.

The objections most people register refer to people who already have their RN and the time and financial constraints mandating further education when they usually have major financial obligations (mortgages, kids in college, retirement plans, etc).

[Kidrn911]

Not all ADN went to community college, some actually attended a real University, and the 2 year programs where actually drawn out to 3 years.

[Wet Noodle]

Not all ADN went to community college, some actually attended a real University, and the 2 year programs where actually drawn out to 3 years.

In order to get an ADN at a community college, you need to take at least two semesters of prerequisites (including humanities and sciences), and four semesters of nursing classes. That is easily three-years-worth of classes if you take off the summers. AA/AS degrees generally require 60 credit hours, but an AS in nursing generally requires 72.

It would be difficult, but doable, to also include the prereqs (e.g., psychology, sociology, statistics) you'd need in order to bridge into a BSN program in the year before nursing classes begin. After that, a bridge program is typically 3 semesters (one calendar year) full-time, or 5 semesters part-time (2 classes/6 credits per semester).