Do you feel the LVN/Lpn Is being left out in the nursing profession?

NurseRatchett · Oct 1, 2003

I'm so glad I found this site!!!! A place to voice my little "LVN" concerns.......

I do feel left out sometimes. I live in California, and a lot of people turn their noses down on you when they find out you're "just" an LVN, and the next question after that insult is "Are you going to finish your nursing career?" I enjoy what I do because I make a difference. However small it is! What irks me is when people think you and an M.A are the same thing. Maybe I'm being a snob, but I worked too damn hard to become an LVN!

I crammed for boards, got up early to go to clinicals, learned etiology and pathology, drugs, classifications, sacrificed time away from my family to do this, etc. I was trained to think like a nurse, whether it be LVN or RN. What i have learned so far is the difference between LVN and RN differ from facility to facility. If they're desperate enough, you can do everything an RN can do with the exception of pushing meds IV.........if they have more than enough staff, then you have to do the jobs nobody wants (emptying bed pans/urinals, bed baths, feeding, filing papers).

KaroSnowQueen, RN · Oct 1, 2003

WHY is it so hard to go from LPN to RN? THAT is my question? It's like nursing wants you to stay an LPN and not further your degree without a lot of pain and misery.

I graduated from LPN school twenty years ago. No bridge program will accept ANYTHING I learned then, there is no testing out in any of them I have investigated. I have to take EVERYTHING all over.

Two schools do LPNs and RNs both, the pre-reqs are exactly the same. The LPN school is billed as one year, it is twelve months. The RN is billed as two years, but if you count out the summer semester, which they don't go, and the LPNs do, it is only eighteen months.

And to require me to take anatomy again, did the basics of anatomy change that much in twenty years??? I seriously doubt it. And English composition????? I took it and aced it without much thought - is all this crap necessary?????

WHY isn't there a place to go and test out and get an RN based on experience. I truly feel that after twenty years as an LPN I know more than a new ADN, not meant in a malicious way, but based on the fact that I have experienced many situations and the new grad is mostly book-learning.

And the difference in LPNs is from state to state. One state I am licensed in, I can do just about anything, haven't run across anything yet that I can't do. The other state says don't do this and this and this and it seems so mickey mouse. PLEASE!!! If I can take the same patients as an RN why can't I do these procedures that I have done for years in the other state? And another neighboring state won't even let LPNs take MD orders, not even in LTC. I don't get it.

At this point, I have lost most of my interest in getting my Rn and am seriously considering what else I can do using my nursing background yet get out of the nurse rut.

tmoorelpn · Mar 12, 2004

I know what you're saying. Because I have two young sons, I decided that I would do things slow and do a little at a time. So I went for my LPN and then thought that I would do my RN later. Well, now I find out that there's at least a three year waiting list for the accelerated RN program at my local college which would cost me $2,500. I do have other choices. I can pay $10,000/year and take several more pre-reqs and get accepted quickly into a bachelor degree program or I can pay $8,500/year and at least 7 pre-reqs and get my associate's degree. It's irritating because I was told when I decided to go into the LPN program that I would have no problems getting into the ADN/RN program, I was told the same thing on graduation day. At this point, I'm not even sure that I want to go on.

I've heard the "just a LPN" comment too many times and every time that I hear it I just want to start slapping. I'm "just" nothing. I graduated at the top of my class, I graduated with honors and I'm a very competent nurse and have done very well being a new nurse. I did clinicals in school right along side of ADN and BSN students and who did they come to with questions when they couldn't find their instructor? Me... "just the LPN". More education doesn't make them better nurses. And it's assumed that the LPN classes are easy which just infuriates me because no nursing program is as intense and condensed as LPN programs are. I have friends who went through LPN classes and then went on for their RN who said that the LPN classes were much, much harder than the RN classes were.

Like i said, I'm not sure I want to continue on. I really don't see much point. It won't make me a better nurse than what I all ready am, I have no intentions of doing anything but LTC and the LPN jobs in LTC are many. I get at least one to two calls per week asking if I'm looking for a job. I'm not worried about not having a job as a LPN so I'm starting to question why I wanted to go on in the first place. I think honestly it was because I, at first, had the mindset that I didn't want to be "just a LPN". And I'm not in nursing for the money so...

Thanks for the opportunity to vent:p :angryfire

WHY is it so hard to go from LPN to RN? THAT is my question? It's like nursing wants you to stay an LPN and not further your degree without a lot of pain and misery.
I graduated from LPN school twenty years ago. No bridge program will accept ANYTHING I learned then, there is no testing out in any of them I have investigated. I have to take EVERYTHING all over.
Two schools do LPNs and RNs both, the pre-reqs are exactly the same. The LPN school is billed as one year, it is twelve months. The RN is billed as two years, but if you count out the summer semester, which they don't go, and the LPNs do, it is only eighteen months.
And to require me to take anatomy again, did the basics of anatomy change that much in twenty years??? I seriously doubt it. And English composition????? I took it and aced it without much thought - is all this crap necessary?????
WHY isn't there a place to go and test out and get an RN based on experience. I truly feel that after twenty years as an LPN I know more than a new ADN, not meant in a malicious way, but based on the fact that I have experienced many situations and the new grad is mostly book-learning.
And the difference in LPNs is from state to state. One state I am licensed in, I can do just about anything, haven't run across anything yet that I can't do. The other state says don't do this and this and this and it seems so mickey mouse. PLEASE!!! If I can take the same patients as an RN why can't I do these procedures that I have done for years in the other state? And another neighboring state won't even let LPNs take MD orders, not even in LTC. I don't get it.
At this point, I have lost most of my interest in getting my Rn and am seriously considering what else I can do using my nursing background yet get out of the nurse rut.

Hellllllo Nurse, BSN, RN · Mar 12, 2004

Rebadee, who originally posted this poem on the AOL LPN message board, says, "The original, that was about black not liking white and vice versa, and rich not liking poor, one religion not liking another etc., was an old poem from the early 60s, I believe, and the author was 'unknown'. I changed it up to fit the nursing arguments that have been appearing on the boards. I can't take credit for the overall theme of the poem."

*SEVEN NURSES*

contributed by Rebadee

Seven nurses trapped by happenstance

In the dark and bitter cold.

Each one possessed a stick of wood,

Or so the story's told.

Their dying fire in need of logs,

The first nurse held hers tight.

For on the faces around the fire,

Was that's a nurse who works at night.

The night nurse looking cross the way,

Saw one not of her shift,

And wouldn't give her stick of wood

To give the fire a lift.

The third nurse noticed in the group

One that wanted to unionize,

"Why should I use my stick of wood

To warm someone I despise?"

The management nurse sat in deep thought,

(Her mind not on the fire)

Of ways to stretch this small staff

Without having to hire.

The LPN's face bespoke revenge

as the fire passed from sight,

For all she saw in her stick of wood

Was a chance for spite tonight.

The nurse with the BSN sat and watched

As the fire began to dim.

"My degree is more important than his

I'll put mine in after him."

The last nurse of this forlorn group

Did naught except for gain

Giving only to those who gave

Was how he played the game.

The logs held tight in death's still hands

Was proof of how we sin.

They didn't die from the cold without,

They died from--THE COLD WITHIN.

tiona · Mar 12, 2004

I'm so glad I found this site!!!! A place to voice my little "LVN" concerns.......
I do feel left out sometimes. I live in California, and a lot of people turn their noses down on you when they find out you're "just" an LVN, and the next question after that insult is "Are you going to finish your nursing career?" I enjoy what I do because I make a difference. However small it is! What irks me is when people think you and an M.A are the same thing. Maybe I'm being a snob, but I worked too damn hard to become an LVN!
I crammed for boards, got up early to go to clinicals, learned etiology and pathology, drugs, classifications, sacrificed time away from my family to do this, etc. I was trained to think like a nurse, whether it be LVN or RN. What i have learned so far is the difference between LVN and RN differ from facility to facility. If they're desperate enough, you can do everything an RN can do with the exception of pushing meds IV.........if they have more than enough staff, then you have to do the jobs nobody wants (emptying bed pans/urinals, bed baths, feeding, filing papers).

YAY! Another Californian! Where in California do you live? I live in the Sierra Foothills, went to school in Sacramento and am currently ANXIOUSLY awaiting my Nclex result. When I went back to school 2 years ago LVN's were being recruited by acute care hospitals like crazy. Now we are being actively pushed out, at least in the Sacramento area. I'm proud of all the hard work and hours I devoted to become an LVN, but now it is almost embarrassing to admit that I'm "just" an LVN. Clinical was especially difficult, because we were LVN students training in acute care hospitals that were laying off their LVN's. Needless to say, the RN's often asked what the heck we were doing there anyway, and many treated us like dirt. Our hospitals pay big bucks to hire traveling RN's, while the unions work hard to keep us out of the new "safe staffing law" count. They wording of the legislation makes it clear that we do in fact count in the ratio, but the RN's are fighting amazingly hard to keep us away, even having marched on the Capitol. I guess I wouldn't want to lose a 6 figure salary either, but what about patient safety and cost containment issues? I don't know about you, but my health insurance increases about $80 each year. Many seasoned nurses draw a larger salary than new physicians, especially in places like Kaiser.

Now, as I'm looking at employment opportunities (I'm interested in home health) the ads always say 1 year of acute care experience required. Well, that ain't gonna happen in my neck o' the woods. I am hopeful that the tides will turn. Any input from you would be appreciated. BTW, I really "just" want to be an LVN. I'm constantly advised to go for my RN. I'm a little old to spend another couple of years in school. I don't need to make big bucks, and I enjoy hands on patient care. I just wish I could find a welcoming climate.

MiaLyse, APRN · Mar 12, 2004

Now what do you think I did before I called the doctor or sent a resident to the hospital...sometimes it makes you wonder what people are thinking....the same group of people that say I can't assess are the very ones who would be reviewing my license if I didn't properly assess my residents.>>

Yes, it does seem to be a matter of semantics.

Kelly

Hellllllo Nurse, BSN, RN · Mar 12, 2004

When I was an LPN (for 8 years), I was treated wonderfully, as an equal, by the majority of RNs whom I worked with. Of course, there was the occasional wacked-out power tripping RN, but you will find that with every occupation, at every level.

I've gone from CNA to LPN to RN. Here are the main differences I find beween every level.

CNA- job is physically hard. You are responsible only for your own work and performance. When you are done with your shift- you're done. No worrying about what was missed, no taking any paper-work home, no staying over to chart, and certainly no missing breaks and lunches.

LPN- job is physically, socially, mentally hard. You are now responsible for the work, actions and performance of not only yourself, but all staff under you and for all pts in your care. The RN is responsible for your actions, performance, etc. If you have a problem or concern, and you are unsure of what to do, inform the RN. She is now responsible for it. You can go on to other things.

RN- job is physically, socially, mentally and politically hard. You are now responsible for the actions and performance of everyone around you- and for all pt outcomes, annoyed "customers" and their relatives. Balancing being responsible for everyone and everything with maintaining positive relations with those whom you are responsible for can be tricky. The docs are *supposed* to be ultimately responsible for the pts, but they are not physically on the premesis for more than a few minutes a day. You are now ultimately responsible for everything that does or does not occur while you are on the premesis.

Being charge nurse is a stressor/burden I can certainly do without- it is not at all worth the extra buck an hour I get to do it.

The atvantages of being an RN over being an LPN (strictly in my own opinion and experiences)-

1. Pay increased by $5.00 an hr.

2. My clinical opinions and concerns are listened to a little bit more than they were as an LPN.

3. No one ever says "Are you going to get your RN?" anymore.

4. Being treated as a more "legitimate" nurse.

5. Being legally considered a professional.

Disatvantages:

1. Being responsible and held accountable for the bad actions or inactions of others. but, nothing is ever mentioned when things go well.

2. Constantly hearing "We do the same job as the RN, we should get paid the same" from people who only know part of what I do and am responsible for.

3. People frequently saying "Aren't you going to get a bachelor's degree?"

4. Frequently hearing about how ADN RNs are "on the way out"- a BSN should be the minimum standard education for nurses.

5. Frequently being the only RN in the building- there is no one else to go to if there is a problem or concern. I had better come up with the right answer, and act on it, NOW.

Was it worth it? I say yes. Was my ADN program more academically difficult than my LPN? No. It was, however, far more politically difficult. And more time consuming.

Did going to RN school teach me how to be an RN? No. Working as an RN did that.

Am I appreciative, grateful and thankful to be working with the great LPNs that I work with? Do I learn from them, and they from me?

Are we all Nurses?

Heck, YES.

Marie_LPN, RN, LPN, RN · Mar 12, 2004

CNA- job is physically hard. You are responsible only for your own work and performance. When you are done with your shift- you're done. No worrying about what was missed, no taking any paper-work home, no staying over to chart, and certainly no missing breaks and lunches.

A lot of why i missed my breaks was the debate of "should i go eat or leave 3 people on dirty wet linen", which turned into a lunch break-free shift. Repeatedly.

3. No one ever says "Are you going to get your RN?" anymore.

I haven't even GRADUATED and that **** phrase has worn thin on me already lol. I just wish people that said that phrase would think before they spoke.

tiona · Mar 12, 2004

When I was an LPN (for 8 years), I was treated wonderfully, as an equal, by the majority of RNs whom I worked with. Of course, there was the occasional wacked-out power tripping RN, but you will find that with every occupation, at every level.
I've gone from CNA to LPN to RN. Here are the main differences I find beween every level.
CNA- job is physically hard. You are responsible only for your own work and performance. When you are done with your shift- you're done. No worrying about what was missed, no taking any paper-work home, no staying over to chart, and certainly no missing breaks and lunches.
LPN- job is physically, socially, mentally hard. You are now responsible for the work, actions and performance of not only yourself, but all staff under you and for all pts in your care. The RN is responsible for your actions, performance, etc. If you have a problem or concern, and you are unsure of what to do, inform the RN. She is now responsible for it. You can go on to other things.
RN- job is physically, socially, mentally and politically hard. You are now responsible for the actions and performance of everyone around you- and for all pt outcomes, annoyed "customers" and their relatives. Balancing being responsible for everyone and everything with maintaining positive relations with those whom you are responsible for can be tricky. The docs are *supposed* to be ultimately responsible for the pts, but they are not physically on the premesis for more than a few minutes a day. You are now ultimately responsible for everything that does or does not occur while you are on the premesis.
Being charge nurse is a stressor/burden I can certainly do without- it is not at all worth the extra buck an hour I get to do it.
The atvantages of being an RN over being an LPN (strictly in my own opinion and experiences)-
1. Pay increased by $5.00 an hr.
2. My clinical opinions and concerns are listened to a little bit more than they were as an LPN.
3. No one ever says "Are you going to get your RN?" anymore.
4. Being treated as a more "legitimate" nurse.
5. Being legally considered a professional.
Disatvantages:
1. Being responsible and held accountable for the bad actions or inactions of others. but, nothing is ever mentioned when things go well.
2. Constantly hearing "We do the same job as the RN, we should get paid the same" from people who only know part of what I do and am responsible for.
3. People frequently saying "Aren't you going to get a bachelor's degree?"
4. Frequently hearing about how ADN RNs are "on the way out"- a BSN should be the minimum standard education for nurses.
5. Frequently being the only RN in the building- there is no one else to go to if there is a problem or concern. I had better come up with the right answer, and act on it, NOW.
Was it worth it? I say yes. Was my ADN program more academically difficult than my LPN? No. It was, however, far more politically difficult. And more time consuming.
Did going to RN school teach me how to be an RN? No. Working as an RN did that.
Am I appreciative, grateful and thankful to be working with the great LPNs that I work with? Do I learn from them, and they from me?
Are we all Nurses?
Heck, YES.

Bless you, my friend!

LolaRN · Mar 13, 2004

Tiona- you sure hit the nail on the head. :)

Sandra Evans · Mar 19, 2004

I believe that LPNs are not recgnized as nurses. I have over heard RNs call LPNs glorified CNAs. I myself am proud to be a LPN and believe that LPNs along with CNAs are truly the backbone of the medical profession. These two groups of individuals may have more contact with the patient than the MD or RN and may be able to give valuable insight into the progress of a patient. So, everyone let us please STOP forgetting about some of our professions most prestigous members.

Sandra Evans · Mar 19, 2004

I believe that LPNs are not recgnized as nurses. I have over heard RNs call LPNs glorified CNAs. I myself am proud to be a LPN and believe that LPNs along with CNAs are truly the backbone of the medical profession. These two groups of individuals may have more contact with the patient than the MD or RN and may be able to give valuable insight into the progress of a patient. So, everyone let us please STOP forgetting about some of our professions most prestigous members.