Do you feel the LVN/Lpn Is being left out in the nursing profession?

norinradd · Jan 21, 2005

I was an LPN in Oklahoma for seven years and have been an LVN in Texas for five, but I still don't know what an LPN/LVN is. The level of education and our freedom of practice vary so much from state to state and even hospital to hospital. We are the platypus of the medical world. RNs, ASN or BSN, have almost universal standards and practices where as we do not. I read on BBs of LPNs who only do CNA or med aide work and are glad no more is asked of them. I, in my mind, have been lucky to have worked in hospitals who allowed me to grow without many restrictions. I first received ACLS in 93' and am now an ACLS instr as well as a BCLS instr, I audited the TNCC in 95' but wasn't given a card because the ENA doesn't recognize LPNs, I received my first of two in-house chemo certs in 97' and received my PICC/Mid line cert in 2000. Taking TO/VO or starting IVs never even been questioned. For over ten years now I have been precepting new grads, LPN and RN and have found no large difference in abilities. The difference comes from responsibility and growth. The brightest LPN will be no more competent if not allowed to learn and grow on the job. So it is unfair to ask RNs and admin to understand us if we can't do that ourselves.

flightnurse2b, LPN · Jul 15, 2007

When I was an LPN (for 8 years), I was treated wonderfully, as an equal, by the majority of RNs whom I worked with. Of course, there was the occasional wacked-out power tripping RN, but you will find that with every occupation, at every level.
I've gone from CNA to LPN to RN. Here are the main differences I find beween every level.
CNA- job is physically hard. You are responsible only for your own work and performance. When you are done with your shift- you're done. No worrying about what was missed, no taking any paper-work home, no staying over to chart, and certainly no missing breaks and lunches.
LPN- job is physically, socially, mentally hard. You are now responsible for the work, actions and performance of not only yourself, but all staff under you and for all pts in your care. The RN is responsible for your actions, performance, etc. If you have a problem or concern, and you are unsure of what to do, inform the RN. She is now responsible for it. You can go on to other things.
RN- job is physically, socially, mentally and politically hard. You are now responsible for the actions and performance of everyone around you- and for all pt outcomes, annoyed "customers" and their relatives. Balancing being responsible for everyone and everything with maintaining positive relations with those whom you are responsible for can be tricky. The docs are *supposed* to be ultimately responsible for the pts, but they are not physically on the premesis for more than a few minutes a day. You are now ultimately responsible for everything that does or does not occur while you are on the premesis.
Being charge nurse is a stressor/burden I can certainly do without- it is not at all worth the extra buck an hour I get to do it.
The atvantages of being an RN over being an LPN (strictly in my own opinion and experiences)-
1. Pay increased by $5.00 an hr.
2. My clinical opinions and concerns are listened to a little bit more than they were as an LPN.
3. No one ever says "Are you going to get your RN?" anymore.
4. Being treated as a more "legitimate" nurse.
5. Being legally considered a professional.
Disatvantages:
1. Being responsible and held accountable for the bad actions or inactions of others. but, nothing is ever mentioned when things go well.
2. Constantly hearing "We do the same job as the RN, we should get paid the same" from people who only know part of what I do and am responsible for.
3. People frequently saying "Aren't you going to get a bachelor's degree?"
4. Frequently hearing about how ADN RNs are "on the way out"- a BSN should be the minimum standard education for nurses.
5. Frequently being the only RN in the building- there is no one else to go to if there is a problem or concern. I had better come up with the right answer, and act on it, NOW.
Was it worth it? I say yes. Was my ADN program more academically difficult than my LPN? No. It was, however, far more politically difficult. And more time consuming.
Did going to RN school teach me how to be an RN? No. Working as an RN did that.
Am I appreciative, grateful and thankful to be working with the great LPNs that I work with? Do I learn from them, and they from me?
Are we all Nurses?
Heck, YES.

This is such an excellent post. I have been an EMT-P since 2002, and am going back for nursing. The problem is that I couldn't get in any Community College (even with the pre-reqs being done!!) because there is a 3-4 year WAIT for the ADN program. So I applied for LPN school and I will graduate next year and bridge to RN, but we even get slack from the teachers! during fundamentals, one teacher even made a comment about how LPN's werent real nurses, we should be phased out and the minimum education for a nurse should be a BscN, That we didnt need to be proficient in drug calculations because we arent allowed to do them, That we didnt need to review the NANDA diagnoses, That RN's did all the work and we were just the same as RMA's! I don't understand why it is considered such a "dependent" profession. You are still well educated on pharmacology and patient care alike. The LPNs i have worked with in my career have been amazing, intelligent, caring nurses, and I would be happy for any of them to take care of me!! Its amazing how here in NC, when I am looking at my job opportunities after graduation (I want to stay in the ER), i was told I had to work as a CNA-2 if I wanted to continue to do patient care, and if I wanted to work as an LPN I could only work doing non-patient care jobs or work in a nrsg home or dr's office! My boss even said she wanted to get rid of the LPNs she had unless they went back to school! What kind of nonsense is that? A nursing license is still a nursing license right?? Can we not tell when someone is crashing? Are we not smart enough to listen to a doctor speak over the phone? Or make a nrsg diagnosis? Can we not sign off our own charts because we make too many mistakes? Emergency nursing is all I have ever wanted to do, but there is no opportunity for me here unless I become an RN. It really makes me sad. Sorry for the vent. I truly believe a nurse is a nurse, no matter what kind of intials, degree or diploma you have!! :angryfire

LPN2RNdude · Jul 16, 2007

ive been a nurse for 8 years (LPN for 7 yrs and an RN for about 9 months) yeah in georgia LPNs can do just about anything but hang blood in hospitals, but about 2 years ago a local hospital where i worked stopped LPNs from touching ANY kind of central line or VAD due to an incident that occured, so every time we had a patient with a PICC line or central line wed have to get the RN to hang it and take it down,,,, it was so degrading, especially in front of the family members... thank GOD i went to RN school!!!

sgherzi4 · Jul 16, 2007

Hi Tiona;

Yet...another CA LVN here! Have had my license for over 25 years and NO, am NOT going back for my RN. Like others have stated: too many classes to take just to "try" to get into a program and what for?? Right now I make over $5k/month and without all that responsibility... back to your question: apply for an LVN job with the California Department of Corrections. They are looking for LVNs and the starting pay is $3385/month. You can apply right on line and will be called for an interview with a prison close to you within about 30 days. Plus, once you have been hired you can transfer around to different prisons within CA. I have been working in the prison settings for about three years, now. The ONLY disadvantage is this: the shifts are 8 hours and not 12....but if that doesn't matter then I say: "go for it"!!!

pagandeva2000, LPN · Jul 16, 2007

I know this is an old thread, but of course, I think we are basically left out of the equation. At the moment, the see-saw is leaning towards RNs, but because of the shortage of nurses in general, I can see it shifting towards us again. It may not be politically shifting but towards skills and availability.

Does it bother me? At the moment, not really. I have made a decent living as an LPN and as the person that posted above me, there really isn't a reason for me to become an RN; I don't want the stress or the political garbage that goes with the title.

BigB · Jul 16, 2007

Hi Tiona;
Yet...another CA LVN here! Have had my license for over 25 years and NO, am NOT going back for my RN. Like others have stated: too many classes to take just to "try" to get into a program and what for?? Right now I make over $5k/month and without all that responsibility... back to your question: apply for an LVN job with the California Department of Corrections. They are looking for LVNs and the starting pay is $3385/month. You can apply right on line and will be called for an interview with a prison close to you within about 30 days. Plus, once you have been hired you can transfer around to different prisons within CA. I have been working in the prison settings for about three years, now. The ONLY disadvantage is this: the shifts are 8 hours and not 12....but if that doesn't matter then I say: "go for it"!!!

What about involentarty OT in the prison system? As a state LVN can't you be forced to work extra shifts? The prisons in northern California have this big time. 2 or 3 forced overtime shifts a week is common. People going into corrections should know the other side of the story. I would say that is a much bigger "disadvantage" then 8 hour shifts.

withasmilelpn · Dec 30, 2007

I am currently a beginning RN student. I am currently a CNA. You all complain about being over looked, what do you think about us? I worked in a nursing home for 2 years. During that time, the CNAs did what I classify as all the hard work while the LPNs did nothing but passed out meds (when they felt like it) and made us feel like we were the gum stuck under their shoe. I think that at the particular atmosphere I worked in, if any one was getting the short end of the stick it would be the CNA. So I decided to go back to school to become an RN not for the so called prestige is brings but to be a voice for those that really get overlooked -CNAs. Correct me if I am wrong but at least a LPN has at least one or two organizations that can represent them and their needs. The CNA has nothing, then we are under paid. Not only have I had to clean up the mess that some of my patient's made, but also behind the "it's beneath me" LPNs that spill formula in the bed while trying to tube feed a patient. Or better yet the sloppy LPN who leaves the potentially infectious changed dressings lying in the patient's bed or on the floor. So stop whining, you guys don't have it as bad as you think. Band together and then maybe you can make a change.

I was a CNA before I became a nurse - LPN. You are correct that your job is very hard, unappreciated and underpaid. However, I am anticipating that your outlook on the nurses will change after you have graduated. After that we'll chat about how easy it is;). Best of luck!

Kashia, ASN, LVN · Jan 1, 2008

Nurses in general are being left out of the nursing profession....rules laws regulations scope of practice money profit...aghhhh!

Present state of society in state of decomposing and will eventually implode on itself....way to political, to many people and rules trying to find stability in increasing chaos. Way off course of what it really is all about. People.

Nursing can not be defined by congress, unions, universities or nursing organizations....even though they busy themselves trying to make you and themselves believe so.

I go into the storm and in the eye I find...the nurse at the bedside of an injured,dis-eased or dying patient that is wanting to trust and trying to make sense -if they are capable -of how to be well or better -in this chaotic system. Who wants and needs to be comforted or have less pain....I never feel left out. I feel a part of what nursing is really about.